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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I get so frustrated with my zx10r.
Its both awsome and annoying at the same time.
Having ridden a vast variety of superbikes i cant see past the zx10s lack of low down grunt and pickup out of slow corners.
Although i love the fact i can do pretty decent lap times on it i find it such hard work purely because the lower grunt issues.
Ive found time and time again i struggle to get past other bikes even though im much faster on a lap.
The issue lies with powering from one corner to the next.
Older bikes like 08 blade and 08 gsxr and 09 big bang can be near impossible to pass from corner to corner because they all grunt away from the zx10 out the bends so you need a long straight to be able to catch back up.
I lowered my gearing alot for a recent track day and it was nearly perfect but still unless your exiting a corner over 10k you will never have enough power to keep up with all other 1000s.
I wish there was a way to gain a shed load of grunt other than biying one of the opposition...
 

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Has it been dyno tuned? I wonder if you still have a bit of low and midrange power to release.
 

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If not enough on exit, MUST drop one gear. Next have to change out teeth in front or rear. If not enough, pro guys will change cassette and Kawa engineered for that.

As long not hitting limiter, have to do above and adjust perception to tweak out faster turn entrance. Doesn't matter how much seat time or length of riding experience, have to sort stuff and relearn stuff all the time;

begin here; read this 1000 times and slowly apply principles:


Twist Wrist 2, Keith Code

learn, ride, learn, ride, read, relearn, ride. If I don't ride everyday, I forget how to ride. Then have to start again.

Kinda fun.
 

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I think i remember your running slip on with OE collector box exhaust valve etc, as you believe it will give you better low down grunt. Im not sure what mods the other bikes you quote have but the direct answer to your question is Yes you can gain shit loads of power lower down the curve. But from earlier threads comments you have made your budget is too tight for a full system filter combo, head and cam work packs the ZX10 with mid range power, i don't mean new cams but simply dialing in the stock cams with a decent skim works.The platform wins titles all around the world at all levels but nothing is everything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes mine has been dynoed and had decat etc..
I spoke to the tuner and thet said you can gain more power and torque but its very expensive to do.
You need to higher the compression ratio. Ported head. Cams. Timing adjustments and full system.
Even then you dont gain that much off the bottom but from midrange on the bike will pull hard.
The thing i dont get is all other makes have superior grunt than zx10 off the bottom of the rev range.
The frustration from me is that i just wish kawasaki would sort the low end grunt issues then theyd have such happy customers and sell alot more bikes.
Maybe the next gen will have it sorted??
Ps lowering the gearing works to a degree but you dont want to be exiting a slow hairpin with 11k revs coz it might spit you off or youll run into the limiter straight away and need to change gear straightaway
 

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Yes mine has been dynoed and had decat etc..
I spoke to the tuner and thet said you can gain more power and torque but its very expensive to do.
You need to higher the compression ratio. Ported head. Cams. Timing adjustments and full system.
Even then you dont gain that much off the bottom but from midrange on the bike will pull hard.
The thing i dont get is all other makes have superior grunt than zx10 off the bottom of the rev range.
The frustration from me is that i just wish kawasaki would sort the low end grunt issues then theyd have such happy customers and sell alot more bikes.
Maybe the next gen will have it sorted??
Ps lowering the gearing works to a degree but you dont want to be exiting a slow hairpin with 11k revs coz it might spit you off or youll run into the limiter straight away and need to change gear straightaway
I'm running -1,+2 for gearing with a flash, decat, and filter. The flash alone opened up the midrange significantly! The gearing has all the grunt I need coming out of hair pins on the track. However, the long straight I'm giving up 10mph with this gearing but its not for long. I couldn't imagine added any more teeth to rear as I'm fighting rear tire slippage already with TC off. I have run with a variety of liter bikes and only the BMW seems to out motor me anywhere on the track.

Stock, the bike was a pig on bottom but after the mods it helped dramatically. Sounds like you already have same mods tho and maybe your just running against faster guys in general but personally I don't think more bottom end would help me with lap times as opposed to just being smooth thru rev range.

Keep us posted with what you end up doing and I hope you make the Kawi work!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I'm running -1,+2 for gearing with a flash, decat, and filter. The flash alone opened up the midrange significantly! The gearing has all the grunt I need coming out of hair pins on the track. However, the long straight I'm giving up 10mph with this gearing but its not for long. I couldn't imagine added any more teeth to rear as I'm fighting rear tire slippage already with TC off. I have run with a variety of liter bikes and only the BMW seems to out motor me anywhere on the track.

Stock, the bike was a pig on bottom but after the mods it helped dramatically. Sounds like you already have same mods tho and maybe your just running against faster guys in general but personally I don't think more bottom end would help me with lap times as opposed to just being smooth thru rev range.

Keep us posted with what you end up doing and I hope you make the Kawi work!
Currently for recent track day i used -2 front and plus 2 rear.
It was hitting limiter in 6th so needed 1 less tooth on the rear to be spot on.
Its not a gearing issue.
On the recent tracķday i was only unable to pass 1 person on a race r1 which was running some megga fast times.
Other than that if i had clear traffic i could do times that would have put me on the front row of the newcomer 1000 class this year.
Times and that arnt my issue.
The issue is to do them times im pushing way harder than others to make up for time lost out of slower bends.
Because i hardly ever get a clear lap on uk trackdays due to the times im running. Im always catching somebody up and struggle to pass other 1000s out of bends so im forever diving up the inside which isnt a nice way to ride all day.
The zx10r is famous for lack of grunt and unless you throw a shed load of cash at it you just gotta put up with it.
The biggest dilema is i make up huge amounts of time in corner entry so that part of the zx10 is just perfect for me.
I have my bike up for sale and if i can sell it id get a bike with more guts just to make my life easier.
I recon the next gen will be different as the press and dyno charts have really hammered the zx10rs lack of oomph.
 

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Wow -2 + 2 is a ton of gear! Well sounds like your out braking others which is great but maybe your hard braking is effecting your exit. Have you tried braking earlier and try to get back on the power sooner? I'm no expert believe me but I am always passing other bikes on track as well and I too out brake lots of riders but it does kill your rpms when you roll back on then your waiting for bike to get back into power. Braking earlier followed by some maintenance throttle will allow you to get on gas faster which is more important then beating them to apex killing all exit speed.

Just thinking out loud but that may help some. However, if you find a bike that allows you to keep late braking and still have the power down low to pass riders on exit then it sounds like your all set! The newer R1 is supposed to be pretty grunty down low and a friend of mine loves how the bike (R1M) handles! Id hate to see you leave team green but I do understand what your looking for and wish you the best!
 

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I have no problems pulling out of corners even against twins. Barely can keep the front wheel on the ground. Completely stock engine. And I'm a wimp about twisting the throttle.

Guessing it's a tuning/set up/gearing issue. Kit ECU and harness did give me a lot more grunt on the race bike. Street bike had decent grunt, but the gearing definitely sucked a lot off the top.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Bike was setup by mss and they are the best in the business. Its bang on what it should be for the mods its got.
Barely keeping the front down is the issue and not the good about the zx10r.
If you got to run low gearing and a whole load of high rpm to exit a corner any good then your gonna get a whole bunch of wheelies.
Ive got long wheelbase which definately has reduced the wheelies alot but still the loss is there.
I found my vid of me v a hayabusa which shows exactly my point.
Im easily faster over a lap but due to the hayabusa grunt its very hard to pass. I wasnt trying to pass him at first. Just admiring the guys great skill on pushing a busa like that. He was a racer and to pass him i had to do quite a lunge.
https://youtu.be/iTeyLMfZMh0
 

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easy fix is to buy a rsv4, the r1 has grunt but other issues abound, the new gsxr is pretty top notch though and well, fireblade hasn't been anything to look at for years so dont waste time there unless you wanna do a full superbike build and tune on it but if you're into blowing cash look at the pani v4 in a year or two once all the bugs have been sorted out
 

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-2 +2 i dont know what more low end grunt you could ask for. Damn thing is probably doing 4th gear wheelies.
 

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You’d be surprised how much of an improvement a full system will give you. They’re pretty much all comparable as far as gains go, so if your budget is tight, find a cheap used one on eBay or the forums. I sold my full Leo Vince setup for only around $800 when I decided to splurge on my Arata set up.




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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
-2 +2 i dont know what more low end grunt you could ask for. Damn thing is probably doing 4th gear wheelies.
Lowering gearing doesnt give you grunt.
Im not sure why people think that.
It just adjusts where the power is at a given speed.
So for example i lowered it so i could run second gear where usually id need first in tight hairpins.
It doesnt not wheelie any more except in first where its lethal.
The power curve of the engine is the same whatever gearing you run
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You’d be surprised how much of an improvement a full system will give you. They’re pretty much all comparable as far as gains go, so if your budget is tight, find a cheap used one on eBay or the forums. I sold my full Leo Vince setup for only around $800 when I decided to splurge on my Arata set up.




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What id like to see is power graphs of gains from full system.
I could afford one if i thought id gain what im after.
I will google some images
 

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I dont think you're going to get near where you want to be without spending a few thousand bucks. A full system is a large part of that obviously but so will be the valve job, head work and slotting the cam wheel so its adjustable, if its not like that from the factory. Then you wanna start playing with cam timing and try to lower where the power comes in at.
Other than that, your looking at buying a different model like im sure i will be next time (keeping all Kawis i currently have in my stable though for sure!)

Edit - I have a GenII so there was/is already down low power and i flashed it so the butterflies open at 5.5K fully and its a rocket ship from about 6 grand or so on up.
 
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What id like to see is power graphs of gains from full system.
I could afford one if i thought id gain what im after.
I will google some images

I have no excuse for not dynoing my bike when I went from the slip-on to the full system considering I have a dyno... but with zero tuning changes the ARATA full gave me an additional 20 mile per hour down the front straight at Willow Springs (per the GoPro footage) over the M4 Slip-on I was using. Bike is much happier in the mid-range as well. Low end is still meh, but I'm never in that zone so doesn't bother me. On my Gen4 the linear race link + Ohlins did more for my drive out of the turns than all other mods combined, but ironically I rarely hammer it in a manner that takes advantage of that extra gription anymore as I am just cruising at a reasonable and prudent trackday pace not trying to keep up with plate holders.
 

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Im easily faster over a lap but due to the hayabusa grunt its very hard to pass. I wasnt trying to pass him at first. Just admiring the guys great skill on pushing a busa like that. He was a racer and to pass him i had to do quite a lunge.
https://youtu.be/iTeyLMfZMh0
i dunno shit about the track, but i saw plenty of times you were in 2nd gear where i would have been in 1st... im sure you have a good reason for it that im just not experienced enough to know, but i dont ever have my rpms down that low on the street.
 

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i dunno shit about the track, but i saw plenty of times you were in 2nd gear where i would have been in 1st... im sure you have a good reason for it that im just not experienced enough to know, but i dont ever have my rpms down that low on the street.
Gearing.

Another reason to change gearing is to avoid 1st gear like the plague. The dangers of hitting neutral while braking from 120-40 can be serious! You count on engine braking on the track and to find yourself in neutral accelerating is not a good feeling. Especially using autoblip/QS you risk hitting neutral. Personally I avoid crossing over neutral anytime I'm on track!


His 2nd gear with his gearing change is probably comparable to 1st gear stock.
 
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