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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,a newbie to your forum from the uk with a race bike with a starting problem.

two weeks ago i booked a day on track to give my newly built racebike a shakedown,got to the circuit and the bike started the bike but it was missfiring and spluttering,i changed the fuel and tried starting but this time the bike wouldnt even fire up....so.....i got home changed the injectors and plugs after hours and hours of scratching my head,and it fired up but only fired on three cylinders ....hours went by trying to solve the problem.....i then changed the main loom, ecu and ignition barrell and key and she fired up a treat and sounded sweet.

after getting the bike started i replaced the plugs with irridium ones and booked another trackday, i loaded the bike into the van ready for the next day at the circuit.

i arrived at the circuit got the bike from the van,turned the ignition on flicked the kill switch down hit the start button and she roared into life,i switched her off pushed her into the garage where i tried starting again...........nothing, back to how she was a week ago, just cranking over.?
the bike has now had two looms,ecu's,ignition barells,fuel pumps,tilt switches,kill switches, sets of plugs and injectors,injector harness.
dis-conected and reconected PC111,new fuel,checked fuses & earth straps,fault codes showing are butterfly exhaust valve. and thats it.the sidestand switch has been bridged and the speed sensor and butterfly valve removed.

WHY START RUN FINE THEN NOT.

its staring me in the face i know but just cant see it.

ANYONE ?

many thanks, frustraighted from the uk
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi many thanks for your replies,

The fuel pump primes and i can see a petrol vapour in the throttle bodies when the engine is cranked and smell fuel ive tested the plugs and there is a spark.

surley if it was a sensor be it sidestand or air pressure sensor at fault it would show when i check the engine diagnostic for fault codes

it ran fine over a couple of days,it ran when i put it in the van in ran when i took it out the van but seconds later it refused to start,
 

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Discussion Starter #6
After trying two of everything its somthing else on the bike telling the ecu not to start but its somthing not as a fault

its not the cam or crank sensor as that would show as a fault,the only thing i havnt changed is the wiring harness at the headstock the coil stick harness or the coil sticks.

it cant be the coil sticks as that wouldnt force a total shutdown i would start but run poorly.

ive got a coil stick harness on order,its a case of changing what i can to eliminate it from being faulty.
 

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try push starting it by putting it in gear, turn on the key, start running until you get moving decently quick, dump the clutch out for a quick second and pull the clutch right back in and stop the bike. Be VERY VERY VERY careful if you do this because if you are not quick as hell with the clutch, the bike can just take off from you and you end up with a crashed bike. I have done it personally, quite a few times, and it still racks my nerves, but necessity is the mother of invention right?

My other question about it is about the starter, its possible that the starter is not strong enough to actually start the motor, but can still get it to crank. Its possible for 2 things, the starter is just not capable of spinning the motor fast enough to get it to start, or the starter is just not getting enough juice to start the bike.

What kind of battery are you running?
 

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surley if it was a sensor be it sidestand or air pressure sensor at fault it would show when i check the engine diagnostic for fault codes
Not necessarily. The ECU will only detect malfunction if the sensor's output is outside of the expected range. It may be within that range, but still be incorrect.
 

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try push starting it by putting it in gear, turn on the key, start running until you get moving decently quick, dump the clutch out for a quick second and pull the clutch right back in and stop the bike. Be VERY VERY VERY careful if you do this because if you are not quick as hell with the clutch, the bike can just take off from you and you end up with a crashed bike. I have done it personally, quite a few times, and it still racks my nerves, but necessity is the mother of invention right?

My other question about it is about the starter, its possible that the starter is not strong enough to actually start the motor, but can still get it to crank. Its possible for 2 things, the starter is just not capable of spinning the motor fast enough to get it to start, or the starter is just not getting enough juice to start the bike.

What kind of battery are you running?
Ya definitely check the voltage off the battery mine was low but it would crank over and over just would not start replaced the battery and fired right up no problem so definitely check that out

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Motorcycle.com Free App
 

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Regulator/rectifier Inspection ....... 16-33 in the service manual...

17-28
Engine Doesn't Start, Starting
Difficulty:

Starter motor rotating but engine doesn't
turn over:

Immobilizer system trouble
Starter clutch trouble
Vehicle-down sensor (OFI) coming off

Poor Running at Low Speed:
Spark weak:
Battery voltage low
Spark plug dirty, broken, or maladjusted
Stick coil wiring trouble
Stick coil not in good contact
Spark plug incorrect
IC igniter in ECU trouble
Camshaft position sensor trouble
Crankshaft sensor trouble
Stick coil trouble
Immobilizer system trouble
 

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Discussion Starter #11
just tested the battery output which is 12.6 v it should be 12.8 or above.

but im getting fuel and a spark ??

discount these and what does it leave left on the bike ?

loom
ecu & junction box
ignition (antenna)
plugs
injectors
injector loom
tilt switch
kill switch
fuse box
starter solenoid
earth straps
crank sensor
cam sensor
side stand sensor
clutch switch/sensor
PC111
fuel pump

im going stir crazy with this so a fresh mind maybe could find the obvious which i cant see.
 

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give push starting it a try and see what it does. Im curious to see what itll do.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
thanks for your help all,

i disconected the cam sensor then checked the diagnostics and it didnt show up as a fault ??

the only fault codes showing are the speed sensor and exhaust valve which i expected as there disconected

strange it didnt show as a fault tho, new one on order.

battery has charge,good spark and fuel getting to the TBs
 

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i disconected the cam sensor then checked the diagnostics and it didnt show up as a fault ??
Did you crank the engine after you disconnected it? I don't know when the ECU checks the sensor, but it's possible that it only does it when the engine is being turned over.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
i did try pushing it, well the wife did but no luck.
But today


i went into the garage and thought ill try turning her over, and she fired up !!!!!! although she sounded like running on 3 cylinders and smoking a wee bit, but she started i let her run on the throttle as tickover was lumpy then i switched her off,i put some more fuel in and tried again.....she started again !!!

ther only thing i done yesterday was remove the cam sensor and cleaned it

now my theory is the cam sensor tells the ignition when to start/spark if the sensor is faulty it wont start or have the timing in the wrong position which would produce the black smoke from the exhaust.

do you think im getting closer ????
 

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Discussion Starter #17
went into the garage again,turned the ignition on switched the kill switch on pushed the start button and she started (as yesterday)

had a feel of the downpipes Number 3 cylinder wasnt firing as the downpipe was cold.

changed the Cam sensor started the the bike,but just as before,running but missing.

so i then changed the upper harness which the cam sensor comes off, tried to start it,Nothing....put the old harness back on ......Nothing

back to square one again.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
right,another route to go down,

ive worked it out that the bike is over fueling,this is making it bellow black smoke when it does run and which stings the eyes and then soak the plugs.

ive deduced that after a day when it does starts thats after the plugs have dried out.

SO... whats telling the bike to over fuel ??? its got to be a sensor atmospheric or air pressure or is it the throtle position sensor ???


when it does start it fires on 3 cylinders only ????? even if i put new plugs in ??

any thoughts ?
 

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bad plug, stick coil not seated fully, bad stick coil, wires for injector/fueling system unplugged or poor connection. The overfueling, does it happen on all plugs, or just the cylinder that doesnt fire?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
fixed


had a tech from kawasaki come round tonight, the bike previously had a motec loom and were now running standard the motec loom doesnt require the Inlet Preasure sensor to be connected to the TBs but the standard loom ecu does, but we didnt have the IP Sensor conected to the TBs via the vacume pipes.....ARRGH

But why did it run and then not ????

the local dyno centre bodged it,theyd hange the map to over fuel and its running way over rich,pumping fuel in and soaking the plugs,then once dry they dry the bike starts again.

and it sat there staring at us all the time.


a BIG thanks for all your replies offering your thoughts.:eek:ccasion1
 
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