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Discussion Starter #1
Stuff like this is worrying me http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=85790
Does anyone have knowledge as to wether having the race intake cam installed increases the likelyhood ?
How many automatically used better retainers when they installed the race cam ?
I dont have the facilities to replace them myself & the shops over here charge big money for this stuff, am now wishing I knew about this when I had it installed cos I'd have paid at the time for the Ti ones.
Should I / we be worried.
Thx Ergo
 

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what are you doing with the bike?street riding?dragracing?givin it hell every so often?nitrous?i used the carpenter ti retainers when i cracked into mine and stiff valve springs but im also hittin it with a 40 shot....its cheap insurance if you ask me:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi there zx-sik-r
I primarily use it for very fast road racing with friends, various amounts of twisties with varying straights between them.
Have my rev light set to come on at peak HP, thats where I change up.
Occasional Top speed runs,empty wide roads and lack of pigs & speedtraps allowing.

Agree its cheap insurance, but I wasn't aware of it when I had the engine work done, so to get this done will cost me as much in labour as the original head work + the cost of the retainers, I'm looking at around £1100uk labour {approx $1650us} +parts

Was expecting more input / interest on this subject as so many people on here 'claim' to have the kit intake cam. I don't believe for a minute they all swapped out thir retainers, especially if they were doing the cam without a thinner H/G.
 

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Hi there zx-sik-r
I primarily use it for very fast road racing with friends, various amounts of twisties with varying straights between them.
Have my rev light set to come on at peak HP, thats where I change up.
Occasional Top speed runs,empty wide roads and lack of pigs & speedtraps allowing.

Agree its cheap insurance, but I wasn't aware of it when I had the engine work done, so to get this done will cost me as much in labour as the original head work + the cost of the retainers, I'm looking at around £1100uk labour {approx $1650us} +parts

Was expecting more input / interest on this subject as so many people on here 'claim' to have the kit intake cam. I don't believe for a minute they all swapped out thir retainers, especially if they were doing the cam without a thinner H/G.
I didnt have a problem with mine till i did stiff springs and retainers were not out yet. i had a thin gasket and race intake cam full exhaust and put 12k on it that summer doing alot of top speed runs. pulled motor apart that winter put stiff springs in and pulled the keepers right through the retainer now i have ti
 

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Was expecting more input / interest on this subject as so many people on here 'claim' to have the kit intake cam. I don't believe for a minute they all swapped out their retainers, especially if they were doing the cam without a thinner H/G.
Good topic. I'm watching and interested in people's responses. I plan to pop my cam cover and check mine this week (easy to do - engine is out of the race car). I hope they'll look good, but still considering changing them for insurance. I run a stock valve train but spend a lot of time near redline.
 

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I spend a lot of time around redline while land speed racing, and have had no problems with the stock retainers (knock on wood). I always use aftermarket springs.

I bought a used head and it showed up with a broken retainer. I asked the guy about it, and he said it came off a running street bike. The keepers were still in place.
 

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I ran on my first stock bore motor a kawi .45mm gasket and the kawi intake race cam for about 2 years of hard riding with out a problem, stock valve train and all down to the cam chain adjuster. I think the retainers are a hit or miss kinda thing to be honest, must have been a batch gone back or bad machining processes. I would inspect them to see if they are broken and if not leave it alone.
 

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I guess the only way to see if you have a problem is by removing cams and tappets, right? And then it'll be pretty obvious (a keeper will look out of place or a retainer looks damaged)?

I don't suppose there's any way to tell if there is a problem in a running or unopened engine.

What is the consensus for "the fix"? New Ti keepers (aka collets) from someone like Carpenter? Are the stock spring retainers fine?

Are you looking at something like a $300 investment for the improved parts?
 

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yeah, you will have to remove cams and the buckets to see if any retainers are broken.

some will go with stock retainers.

stock retainers run 120bucks from ronayers plus shipping

carpenter titanium retainers are 220 plus 15 shipping

so for 100 bucks more you will have no worries about any retainers ever again.
 

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I would inspect them to see if they are broken and if not leave it alone.
i know you've seen a few busted retainers in your day. my question is are you seeing or hearing of a certain year it affects? or it it hit or miss on any given year? what about mileage? any certain amount of use before they go south?

what about a recall on them?:dontknow:
 

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what about a recall on them?:dontknow:
I asked about this in another thread with no response. I called Kawasaki USA myself. They asked for my VIN and said nope, no recalls on this bike (06). I tried to get some info on tech issues but they told me to politely get screwed and take up any further questions with my local dealer.

Talking to my local dealer is like talking to a head of lettuce. The 2 people that used to know their stuff are gone and the limited conversations I've had with the 'new' staff since have not been confidence inspiring to say the least.

I'm going to pull the cams myself pretty soon (hopefully) to check things out. If anything is out of order, I'll buy aftermarket springs/retainers and treat myself to a cam as well. I'm just waiting on finding a deal on an exhaust system so that I can tear in to everything once.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for joining in Garth, appreciated

I am wondering if a Poll is gonna give us a better overview.
This is way frustrating, like have I got a ticking time bomb under me or not.

Because I want to go with Garths answer.....
BIG QUESTION FOR ME, can a good engine shop change these damn retainers in a proffesional manner without removing the head if its found they need replacing ???
This would make it do-able, i.e cost effective for me & I'd go ahead and order the parts.

I read about wasing line in the bores.......etc etc, doesn't sound like my type of engineering practice / standard to me {just my opinion}

Please any info anyone who has run across the issue ?
Thx as always
Ergo
 

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Ergotomine, I think we are going to take it in the shorts on this one.

If mine are OK, I'm not going to screw with it until next winter. If they are buggered, then the head will have to come off. I don't know of any other way to do it. I've never done it another way and have never seen it done any other way. When, not if, I do this, I'll put a cam in and have some headwork done. I don't plan on pulling the head twice.

Lots of people claim it can be done by using compressed air or stuffing things in the combustion chamber. That really sounds like a backard-Bob way of doing things. Not one of them that I have talked to ever had firsthand experience doing this. They all knew of a guy or heard you can do it this way or that way... in other words, they are talking out of their asses.

I don't know how it could be done without pulling the head. The valve spring still has to be compressed to get the clips out (and back in). If anybody has firsthand experience of R&Ring the retainers w/o pulling the head, I'd love to hear about it.

I'm only an exhaust system away from getting to work and the weather is too nice to put this off.
 

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Ergotomine, I think we are going to take it in the shorts on this one.

If mine are OK, I'm not going to screw with it until next winter. If they are buggered, then the head will have to come off. I don't know of any other way to do it. I've never done it another way and have never seen it done any other way. When, not if, I do this, I'll put a cam in and have some headwork done. I don't plan on pulling the head twice.

Lots of people claim it can be done by using compressed air or stuffing things in the combustion chamber. That really sounds like a backard-Bob way of doing things. Not one of them that I have talked to ever had firsthand experience doing this. They all knew of a guy or heard you can do it this way or that way... in other words, they are talking out of their asses.

I don't know how it could be done without pulling the head. The valve spring still has to be compressed to get the clips out (and back in). If anybody has firsthand experience of R&Ring the retainers w/o pulling the head, I'd love to hear about it.

I'm only an exhaust system away from getting to work and the weather is too nice to put this off.
I think the way that most people think of doing the compressed air type of way is in more of an automotive type of application. when working on my 96 gmc sonoma, the factory service manual shows you how to do this... the thing about it well 1 is that you have room to work on it and 2 the type of valve spring compressors that are used are pretty much like pry bars with a cut out to get the collet's/keepers out of the retainer.

Its seriously not a big deal to take the head off these bikes guys... the only added steps are removing the radiator and headers and the cyl head bolts and some timing things.... not really a big deal and you can clean everything up while in there.... and for 20 bucks you can put a fresh head gasket on there... the .45mm gasket :) :thumbsup:
 
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