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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

i am playing around with woolich software. Now im wondering if it is better to advance ignition by value trim or % trim. Because advancing it by the value 2 gives a 20% change in some cells wich I think is very high.

Giving an advance of 5% gives a maximum advance of 2 in some cells.

What do you think?
 

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On top, there is set Values box so you can set a value for each cell or group of cells as you highlight it. but either way it works.
 

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What I do is use percentance on the fueling and actual numbers on ignition.
I don't find any reason to play with percentace on ignition maps, it's nicer and more clear when I use actual numbers. But it depends how you are used to ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
That was what I would like to know. What do you think about timing changes? Will i be able to advance by 2 in every cell. With very good fuel of course. The percentage change caused only 0.6 in lower rpm at full throttle what i tought was a lot better than a 2. Newbie as you know already...
 

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Timing is very important on how the engine will run, what modifications you have on the bike if any. Different Exhaust can Add timing at low RPM but not so much at full throttle, what type of fuel running in the bike . just adding timing to all cells may not work and can damage engine in long run.

If you don't have the right equipment to measure cylinder temp and NOx then I don't suggest adding timing at top End. If the Fuel you using is high octane reducing timing at the top end is more needed. This is my timing map and it is not so radical . with 91 pump gas and cat limiting exhaust.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Where did you get the values from? Did you measure something? What kind of cat and exhaust do you run? Also got a cat in my exhaust, not the stock one...
 

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Where did you get the values from? Did you measure something? What kind of cat and exhaust do you run? Also got a cat in my exhaust, not the stock one...
Usually, the manufacturer retard timing up to 5000-6000 RPM to pass Emission regulation so adding some timing up to that point is not that bad. the high flow exhaust can demand a bit more timing in those areas too.

I have no idea what type of Exhaust you are running how much flow it does have. How much A/F is allowed to run. too rich of A/F can plug up a cat.
I suggest contacting the manufacturer of the Exhaust and see what A/f they run with the Exhaust Or a tuner in your area that done the tune on the type of Exhaust.
as far as my timing map it was checked on dyno with 5 gas analyzer for NOX and wasn't set for extream.
 

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Proper part throttle ign timing tuning procedure requires a dyno that reads out steady state hp in realtime and the ability to make timing changes in realtime. Make a timing change and the hp changes. Magic. Now move to another throttle position and repeat.

If you aren't doing part throttle ign timing tuning on the above described dyno, you have to make educated guesses, using experience and intuition as to what ign timing you think the engine might like and test ride.

For full throttle ign timing, you should make your full throttle ign timing changes and test for power under a steady state load. Doing steady state loading pretty much prevents you from over advancing the ign timing as power will decrease under full load if overadvanced.

If just playing around, try a blanket +2 and +4 degrees. It's rare that much wants +6.

A 2 degree change is a normal increment of change. A 1 degree change is pretty small.

FYI - a power commander's ign timing isn't in degrees. A power commander "10" is really 3-4 real degrees.

Br,

Marc Salvisberg
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Im running 100 RON what should be like 94 fuel in the states.

Ok so you did it most by feeling and checked that on Dyno?

Down right, full tps and high rpm the timing seems to be retarded too. Going down rapidly in stock timing table. Don't you think?
 

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Yes, higher octane fuel can handle more timing but still how hot the cylinder gets and what type of flow the engine have. higher RPM there is more gasses to exit off the exhaust so more heat, requires less timing. timing is added where the engine requires it to run smooth and with power, too much timing can cause the top of the cylinder to heat up and cause NOX .that's where the metal dioxide. the damage will be to the pistons and valves. you can add timing tell there is what they call knocks and back off few degree from there. you can use a knock sensor or temp sensor and in my case a Nox measurement in ppm. if you don't have any of those as I said before, timing can be added up to 5-6000 RPM as manufacturers retard those areas to pass emission regulation. adding Timing at the top end of RPM without any tools is something you shouldn't do. if you really want the power at the top end you do need a dyno and an experienced tuner. in your case with a cat, you should pay attention what air-fuel ratio you get after the cat . most cats require 14.7:1 ratio in order to work correctly and last long, too rich of a mixture can plug up the cat. If you have a high flow Cat then the richer mixture is ok with it but you need to check with the manufacturer to find out how much and what flow you getting from the exhaust before you start adding timing and running the mixture richer than manufacture.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ok,

so plus 2 on all cells should be ok with good fuel? This was what i heard before. Will try out. Would be so cool to have a Dyno...
 

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+2 shouldn't be any problem on the power curve. But are you running the bike on an open loop or closed loop?

dose catalytic converter can handle open loop? if close loop the narrow band sensor adjust fuel up to 20% throttle.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
+2 shouldn't be any problem on the power curve. But are you running the bike on an open loop or closed loop?

dose catalytic converter can handle open loop? if close loop the narrow band sensor adjust fuel up to 20% throttle.
I think yes. Why shouldn't they handle it? Its metal cat 100 cells per square inch. But not sure if i will run on closed loop. Probably no!


MPP: Sorry for poor pics. But i think this mapping is crap. Will change that for sure.
 

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Here is my ignition timing map , i had to do in two part so hope you can see it and just give you an idea. I am not saying that you should use this map at all but just for information looking at what others are doing . hope other people can post their map too so we all see how they are. I am using pump gas 91 and it is a mild ignition map.
 

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