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Long post, here goes...

So if you were following the thread about the legislation of homosexual marriges in Texas, you would of read where Miami asked,
ZX10Miami said:
I just wonder why your God allows gay priests to molest children.
My reply was that I wonder the same thing.
Pondering on these thoughts, and others, I decided to skip out work this past Wed night for a revival meeting at church.
Guest preacher just "happened" to be preaching on this subject. So I thought it was more than appropriate to share them with you all. Especially when we hear of things like Miami spoke of and with the children and women being exploited after Katrina.

I realize suffering and evil are around all the time, so heres why I think that is...some things to think about...

  1. God created man with the ability to choose.
  2. God created the world with unbreakable natural laws.
These two things account for all of the suffering/evil in the world.

Be it someone who choses to take a life of another, a choice made to drink and drive, cheat on a spouse, or whatever the choice is. The point is that we do have the ability to chose what we want to do, and when some make the wrong decision, it may only affect them, but also others around them.

Also, natural laws cannot be broken. We have the laws that we must have to live. Things like the water cycle, gravity, effects of temperature, etc.

There are both sides to these laws. While the water cycle may bring rain to water the land and grow plants and help feed the rivers for the animals, huricanes are also a part of this.

While gravity is what keeps you on the ground and our bikes on the road, it is also what helped the twin towers fall.

Heat can kill as well as cold. I couldn't imagine burning at the stake or hypothermia...but without the properties of temperature, we couldn't have ice in our drinks or boil food.

Mat 5:45 "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Whether you believe in GOD or not, the two points above cannot be denied for the causes of the suffering in the world today.

But that doesn't answer the question "WHY?". Why would a true, just, loving God allow such things to happen to people; good people, children?

God doesn't eliminate suffering on Earth because...
  • It would nullify our ability to choose.
If everytime someone tried to make a bad decision, God just stopped it, we couldn't choose any more. If that was the case God would have mindless robots on the earth. God didn't want robots or He would have made them.
  • It would eliminate the world its self.
The world has phisical laws, and people that do evil things in it. If God eliminated the suffering he would eliminate the things that make up the world. God is fair and just though, and has said He would end the suffering. Its called Heaven.

If He took away the suffering, we would be in Heaven. It is impossible for man in the flesh to be in Heaven.

1Cr 15:47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord* from heaven.
1Cr 15:48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear* the image of the heavenly Man.
1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
  • In some cases suffering can be benificial.
Jam 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,
Jam 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
This may sound a little strange at first, but suffering does build your character. You've heard the saying, "If it doesn't kill me it will make me stronger." Its true!
  • Life was meant to be temporary.
We were never supposed to be on earth for a very long time. Perhaps life seems gruelling at times, but its not even a blink when considering eternity. We as motorcyclists know that we aren't hear long. It seems as though I'm always hearing of someone parting from this Earth, from something motorcycle related.

Jam 4:13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit";
Jam 4:14 whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away.
  • Our suffering here is so miniscule.
Lastly, similar to the point prior. Sometimes things seem horible and perhaps like it cannot get any worse. This is not true and although it may seem this way, it isn't. And if we don't do what need to we will truely understand this after we die.

Some say "time heals all wounds..."

An eternity in Hell will not get better after 10,000 or 1,000,000 years.

2Cr 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory,
2Cr 4:18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us

Hope that helps!

As always I welcome any feedback pos or neg.
 

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:dontknow: Tongue tied and twisted,just an earth bound piston in flight..keep'n a watch on the circling skies...."witness" into the world Hill~~with the moral of the planet :machinegu :gay: and the sins of our 10"S :notworthy were doomed!! :+1:
 

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Actually the line is, "Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I". :mrgreen:

Sorry Hill,:eek:t: I know.
 

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Good stuff Hill.

Good song, P.F.- Learning to fly, actually great album.
 

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I can't say I'm a believer simply because of the sheer number of conflicting religions,how can we be sure to choose the right one?Another factor is the way people kill and maim each other in the name of God,surely he would'nt want this to happen!I feel that if there was an all powerful being the world would be a better place,no disease,no rich&no poor,just a balanced contented world.I was brought up a Catholic yet now I see the trouble and strife caused by their doctrine,for example look at Africa ,in areas where the church has influence you also find that birth rates & the spread of aids are out of control,why?Because the church in it's infinite wisdom forbids contraception!
 

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danno 22: "Religion"! This is the problem. And the word "God". These words have very broad meanings. "God" came from the German word "Got" meaning
supernatural being. And you right, there are many so called gods and religions.

To narrow it down, the only and living God has a name. Jesus.
To try to put your trust in a religion is foolishnes.
Religion is a man made fantasy.
Usualy serving the purpose of making the life of the funders and the leaders of these "clubs" , luxuious, keep them in power and in controll over a particular group
of people. These have nothing to do with The Almighty Creator whose name is Jesus.

Col 1:16 For by him were, all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


So....these guys making up stories in the name of "God" and use it to enslave people. The resoult is: always bad.

A person who put his trust in Jesus, and keep His instructions that are find in the Bible, this dude can't go wrong and the resoult is always good.

Just as you would follow the instructions of the service manual for your bike written by it's maker Kawasaki and get good resoults. Listen to some Piniccio's advice (or of your own) and you will mess it up.

It is that simple.

If you believe and obey "church doctrine" , you'll have pain, sorrow, fear, destruction.

If you read the Bible, believe it and act on it , you'll experience the reality of the living God and Saviour whos name is Jesus. And you will live!!!
 

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Chads10R said:
To be quite honest, this thread needs to stop right here!
In a world of [alleged]free speech we have the freedom to talk openly & honestly about any reasonable subject,I see no reason to stop this thread here as it's a subject which many people have views on!The best thing to do if you don't like the thread is not to read it,no offence to ya Chad :thumbsup:
 

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2fastgixxer said:
danno 22: "Religion"! This is the problem. And the word "God". These words have very broad meanings. "God" came from the German word "Got" meaning
supernatural being. And you right, there are many so called gods and religions.

To narrow it down, the only and living God has a name. Jesus.
To try to put your trust in a religion is foolishnes.
Religion is a man made fantasy.
Usualy serving the purpose of making the life of the funders and the leaders of these "clubs" , luxuious, keep them in power and in controll over a particular group
of people. These have nothing to do with The Almighty Creator whose name is Jesus.

Col 1:16 For by him were, all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


So....these guys making up stories in the name of "God" and use it to enslave people. The resoult is: always bad.

A person who put his trust in Jesus, and keep His instructions that are find in the Bible, this dude can't go wrong and the resoult is always good.

Just as you would follow the instructions of the service manual for your bike written by it's maker Kawasaki and get good resoults. Listen to some Piniccio's advice (or of your own) and you will mess it up.

It is that simple.

If you believe and obey "church doctrine" , you'll have pain, sorrow, fear, destruction.

If you read the Bible, believe it and act on it , you'll experience the reality of the living God and Saviour whos name is Jesus. And you will live!!!

errrrr, that's fine for you, but let the rest of the world decide for themselves...to each his own...not one is better than another...too many Chritians think they are right and Saved while the rest of the world is doomed...kinda smug and self righteous of you all...
 

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I was raised as a Roman Catholic. I have, over the years, questioned the "rightness" of the Church leaders. In my opinion, there is just one rule that we all need to follow. It is not really a rule taken from any religion, it is how I try to lead my own life. And it goes like this:

Respect your fellow human being as a person. Do what you can for those in need when you can.

Simple as that. And for those that go about their lives only looking to gain more for themselves, will get what is coming to them. Karma is a bitch, and she will let you know when you have stepped on too many toes!
 

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mach_man_187 said:
I was raised as a Roman Catholic. I have, over the years, questioned the "rightness" of the Church leaders. In my opinion, there is just one rule that we all need to follow. It is not really a rule taken from any religion, it is how I try to lead my own life. And it goes like this:
Respect your fellow human being as a person. Do what you can for those in need when you can.
Simple as that. And for those that go about their lives only looking to gain more for themselves, will get what is coming to them. Karma is a bitch, and she will let you know when you have stepped on too many toes!
Since the thread has went this way...

Theres one question you need to ask yourself..."How did we get here?"

Theres only two answers to that question. Either some sort of big-bang theory, or the creation acount in the Bible.

If you agree that God created the Earth and universe in 6 days like he says in the Bible, then that makes you accountable for some things. If God breathed the words to write down in Genesis, then He did that in the whole Bible.

You cannot believe in only part of His book. I do agree that we need to be good people and serve others. That is definatly some of our commandments, but not all!
Mat 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
Mat 22:38 "This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
Mat 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
But we also have many other commandments in the Bible, that also need to be obeyed. I do not believe that we are under the Old Law of Moses any more. When Jesus died, the Old Law was nailed to the cross with Him.
Hbr 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Hbr 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--
Hbr 8:9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD.
Hbr 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Hbr 8:11 "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
Hbr 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds* I will remember no more."*
Hbr 8:13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Which leaves the books from Matthew to Revelation to follow.

Before Jesus left the Earth after His resurrection He said this,
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Mat 28:19 "Go therefore* and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
If all has been autority has been given to Jesus, we need to be doing all we can to obey all that He has commanded.

As far as religion goes, I side with 2fastgixxer. People are not perfect, and just because its under the name of religion doesn't make it right. However the Bible is the inspired word of God and is what we need to be following.

So if youre having trouble finding a chuch, try to find one that speaks where the Bible speaks and is silent where the Bible is silent.

I would hope that just because as a child someone had a bad "religious" experience, that they would not allow that to hinder them serving the God that they know exsists! When the judgement day comes we will ALL be accountable for our actions. We shouldnt let the actions of others or bad experiences contend with doing whats right. If we do that Satan wins. Thats just what he wants...
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
And the flip side of that, I would hope that someone would not use the cliche' "all religious people are hypocrits!" to keep us from worshiping. I understand that that is a reality some places, but not all. And I wonder sometimes people dont use that as an excuse just so that they dont have to go to worship with others on Sunday morning.
 

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Older Guy said:
errrrr, that's fine for you, but let the rest of the world decide for themselves...to each his own...not one is better than another...too many Chritians think they are right and Saved while the rest of the world is doomed...kinda smug and self righteous of you all...

For sure!!!! Who told you that you can't decide???!!!
You also said: "not one is better than another". Well said!!! Did you know that you just quoted the bible???
It says: "There is no righteous no, not one" and " all have sinned..."

Friend , the Christian thinks , rather believe he/she is saved because what Jesus have done on the cross. He is the Saviour not our selves. And our "ideas" comes from the Word of God.
Not from our fantasy.
We trust the Word of the Living God and encourage others to do so,
but NEVER force it to anyone. It is the many times mentioned freedom of choice given by God.
What's wrong with that. Take it or leave it.
But the consequences of the choice we made are serious.

But one thing I never understand. Why is this subject so offensive to some?
What is wrong with loving each other?
Do not steal, do not lie, honour your parents etc??? What's the problem with this??

Let's say, you are married, have kids and love your wife. One day you find her in bed with someone. How would you feel???? Come on HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?????

So what is wrong with; "Thou shall not commit adultery" ????

Put up your hands if you like when someone steals from you.

Or you business partner cheat and lie to you???

Would you enjoy it???

So what on earth is wrong about the Bible and the love of God????
 

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Well, thou shall not commit adultery is moralism and judgemental...same with cheating business partners...when it could just be explained as karma...no more, no less...

It isn't that it is a wrong...it is an issue with the individual who commits the act and the unhappiness within that creates such an act...to judge or issue a commandment doesn't address the problem of the individual...neither is being saved by Christ...

nothing wrong with loving each other...
 

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Older Guy said:
Well, thou shall not commit adultery is moralism and judgemental...same with cheating business partners...when it could just be explained as karma...no more, no less...

It isn't that it is a wrong...it is an issue with the individual who commits the act and the unhappiness within that creates such an act...to judge or issue a commandment doesn't address the problem of the individual...neither is being saved by Christ...

nothing wrong with loving each other...
..."an issue with the individual" , exactly! The Bible calls it SIN!!!

If you break the speed limit the cops or the court, couldn't care less with your
"issues". You've trespassed the law. They have the proof, you're done.


Even in our courts if you regretful and sincere, the judge maybe more lenient, but you must serve your time.
But if you try to be smart....you may get the maximum sentence.

With God the situation is much better though.
If you sincere and sorry for your sin and ask him to forgive you, He will forgive you,
and remember your sin no more. No record kept.

But when a person try to do the blame shifting and wouldn't admit to the sin,
condemnation is certain.


Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should, not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is, not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath, not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither, cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.



In other words God has provided the way to forgiveness and eternal life through Jesus Christ, it's all in the Bible, some people reject it, they don't want to admit to their sins and ask Jesus for forgiveness.
For this dudes....there is no help.

But those who do...:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even, as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne
.
 

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that doesn't even make sense...admit sin, and God firgives you...don't admit and you burn in Hell...that means you don't have to be responsible anymore, just ask for forgiveness and you are relieved of your sins...I don't think the laws or karma don't work that way...
 

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Its' too good to be true, but...that's what the Bible says.
That's why it called Good News or Gospel.

Look:

1 John 1: 8-10 " If we say that we have no sin,
we deceive ourselves and the
truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, He (Jesus)
is faithful and just to cleanse us
from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned
we make Him a liar, and His word
is not in us.

1 John 2: 1-2 "My little children these things write
I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any
man sin, we have an advocate with
the Father , Jesus Christ the righteous:

and He is the propitiation for our sins:
and not for ours only, but also for the
sins of the whole world.


When you born again by accepting Jesus in your heart, God create a new spirit in you
and you don't want to sin anymore. You kinda hate sin. But still able to do it if you give in
to temptations. But there is always a way out as you can see above.

And yes, there is still a responsibility, 'cause the consequences of sin are still there.
Last year I lost my licence for 15 months, doing over 270-280 with a friend of mine(ZX12).

We just gave in to temptation. The road was clear, 4 lanes, hey... but a Highway patrol car was coming the other way, and we were done.

Of course I repented before God and according to the promises above I knew I was forgiven before God. But let me say this, I was sincerely repented. I'm not talking about just blabbing some words.
And from then on I purchased a trailer and went to the track days, to have my adrenalin
fix. Now I'm a good boy on public roads.
That's what repentance means. Turning away from the sin.
But I still had to serve my time. The court didn't forgive me. No matter how remorseful I was.

So.. there...
 

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I heard some sermon thing on the radio today very similar to this topic. Very interesting and fascinating stuff.
I'm taking the express train to hell for saying this. Religion this, repent blah blah blah that, sin yack yack yack yack. satan is not going to win shit, cuz he drives a Honda. Too much religion talk, not enough riden yer 10's and keeping your own faith and staying safe. BTW, I love catholic girls the best, they are the dirtiest sluts to have fun with. Christian girls are nice whores too. blah blah blah. You read your bible. I will read mine. :eyecrazy:
 
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