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Discussion Starter #1
what do you guys think of your kayaba forks and shock?any complaints?ideas for improvement?good points concerning performance,looks etc?
any features youd like to see?
any info greatly appreciated!
cheers
 

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Hillbillie Mod
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Never heard of it. Thats not sayin much though...
 

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Quality of components seems OK but the stock settings are way off the mark. Too much preload and too much compression damping at stock settings. It would be nice to have most rider's preferences to be somewhere near the middle of the adjustment range rather than at one end.

Questions of how well the damper's valving matches requirements are best asked of someone who knows more than I do. After adjustment, it's good enough for me.
 

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I agree with go faster, this bike was not setup for a 160lb rider...I weigh 155 and have backed out my preload and backed out most of the compression. The rebound also needs to be turned in to slow the action down. I would like to see less stiction, improved valving, straight rate springs as stock, and high low adjustable shock...if I had my choice. Even the magazines said it "we want a ramped preload adjuster on the rear shock or easier access to the adjusting nuts, one of the two" And tell kawasaki to include a spanner in the tool kit!!!

Basically, I want yamaha suspension on a kawasaki frame and motor with eithers brakes.

Do you work for kayaba? After the 636 went to showa it will be interesting to see if the 10r also makes the switch. Not knocking kayaba but all the bikes you hear about with stellar front ends are showa (GSXR & Ducatis)
 

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I like the Kayaba setup on my 04 10R waaaaay better than the stock setup on my 04 636. The 10's rear shock actually does its job supporting my 205lbs without any wallow or drama. The forks have bad stiction if you back the preload out >= 5 lines showing and push them to 75% of travel. The stiction is less noticeable @ 4 lines and nonexistant w/ 3 lines of preload. I'm in no hurry to do Ohlins front/rear (I LOVE Ohlins forks BTW) because I can def. live with the stock components (at least thru my 1st race season).
 

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It would be nice if all their adjusters were position versus click type. Their is no greater annoyance than being between clicks. Or if the must, have finer adjustment increments other than the 1/8 turn or 1/4 turn versions.

Why is it that a proper valve stack can't be used. All that high speed compression is just unnecessary. A higher flow valve as in the showa would be nice and help with the comp and rebound crosstalk. And lower the hydraulic bottom out area.

Out back, what is up with the crazy amounts of rebound the newer socks have?
Personally I like rear spring collars as they are more adjustable and you're not locked into where the ramp step leaves you.
 

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Question for your friend at Kayaba. Does he know why Kwak (or possibly Kayaba) went with a front axle setup that pinches the forks together, and creates so much stiction? I haven't seen another sport bike do this in years.
 

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On the plus side the ZX10R KYB forks are some of the lighest OEM forks supplied today. They weigh almost 1 pound less than the current Ohlins R&T forks per side. The fork springs are .925 kg/mm, straight rate, about right for a 175 lb rider.
Negatives:
Forks: Way too much high speed compression damping. Not enough high speed rebound. The fork bushings are a copy of the Ohlins design but are too narrow. They need to increase the width of the bushing 5 to 7 mm [more surface area] to help the stiction problem under hard braking. I would like to see a 12 or 12.5 mm damper rod in place of the current 10 mm rod for better front end feed back.
Shock: OEM spring is around 550 lbs per inch [OK for a rider above 200 lbs] but has too much preload as delivered by KYB. Probably a concession for two up use. Too much high speed compression and rebound. The spring preload adjusters are almost impossible to adjust with the shock on the bike. Have KYB look at the Penske threaded adjuster with a set screw. Simple to adjust on the bike.
Most Japanese sport bikes are sprung and valved too soft for US roads and US riders. Exceptions are Honda's RC51 and most Kawasaki's which are too stiff. I just took delivery of a new 05 ZX6RR with the new Showa forks and shock. Hopefully it's an improvement over the 04 ZX6RR KYB equiped bike.
 

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wstaab said:
On the plus side the ZX10R KYB forks are some of the lighest OEM forks supplied today. They weigh almost 1 pound less than the current Ohlins R&T forks per side. The fork springs are .925 kg/mm, straight rate, about right for a 175 lb rider.
Negatives:
Forks: Way too much high speed compression damping. Not enough high speed rebound. The fork bushings are a copy of the Ohlins design but are too narrow. They need to increase the width of the bushing 5 to 7 mm [more surface area] to help the stiction problem under hard braking. I would like to see a 12 or 12.5 mm damper rod in place of the current 10 mm rod for better front end feed back.
Shock: OEM spring is around 550 lbs per inch [OK for a rider above 200 lbs] but has too much preload as delivered by KYB. Probably a concession for two up use. Too much high speed compression and rebound. The spring preload adjusters are almost impossible to adjust with the shock on the bike. Have KYB look at the Penske threaded adjuster with a set screw. Simple to adjust on the bike.
Most Japanese sport bikes are sprung and valved too soft for US roads and US riders. Exceptions are Honda's RC51 and most Kawasaki's which are too stiff. I just took delivery of a new 05 ZX6RR with the new Showa forks and shock. Hopefully it's an improvement over the 04 ZX6RR KYB equiped bike.
I agree with wstaab. But I had no knowledge of the fork internals that he spoke of. I have been able to tune the suspension to my liking (170 lb rider) but I am near the end of the rebound dampning range f & r. There is one really bumpy relatively low speed corner that I take often. The ZX10 forks work really well in this corner giving me a great deal of confidence. The forks make the bumps seem to disappear. The only bike I have ridden that is comparable has been a 998S Ben Bostrom Replica with Ohlins forks.
 

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wstaab said:
On the plus side the ZX10R KYB forks are some of the lighest OEM forks supplied today. They weigh almost 1 pound less than the current Ohlins R&T forks per side. The fork springs are .925 kg/mm, straight rate, about right for a 175 lb rider.
Negatives:
Forks: Way too much high speed compression damping. Not enough high speed rebound. The fork bushings are a copy of the Ohlins design but are too narrow. They need to increase the width of the bushing 5 to 7 mm [more surface area] to help the stiction problem under hard braking. I would like to see a 12 or 12.5 mm damper rod in place of the current 10 mm rod for better front end feed back.
Shock: OEM spring is around 550 lbs per inch [OK for a rider above 200 lbs] but has too much preload as delivered by KYB. Probably a concession for two up use. Too much high speed compression and rebound. The spring preload adjusters are almost impossible to adjust with the shock on the bike. Have KYB look at the Penske threaded adjuster with a set screw. Simple to adjust on the bike.
Most Japanese sport bikes are sprung and valved too soft for US roads and US riders. Exceptions are Honda's RC51 and most Kawasaki's which are too stiff. I just took delivery of a new 05 ZX6RR with the new Showa forks and shock. Hopefully it's an improvement over the 04 ZX6RR KYB equiped bike.
And whats your thoughts about the top-out spring? remove completely or shorten them?

BD
 

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Top out springs

Most of the OEM forks on the liter bikes are coming with longer top out springs today. Honda started it with the 02 RC51 Showa forks to pull the front end down and change the measured rake and trail. The only reason I can see for the current longer top out springs is to help keep the front wheel on the ground. The new liter bike have enough power to raise the front wheel off the ground at full throttle in the lower gears. The longer top out spring would basically reduce the effective fork spring rate [soften] as the fork approaches full travel. This would help the front wheel follow irregularities in the road as the front end gets light.
On race bikes with modified cartridges or aftermarket cartridges we use shorter top out springs mainly to protect the forks from mechanical damage at full extension. On race bikes the problem of keeping the front wheel on the ground is addressed by suspension setup, swing arm down angle, wheelbase length, and adjustable swing arm pivot height on some bikes.
On a street bike I would leave them in. If you race and can lap within 5 seconds of the AMA racers then shorter top out springs might help you.
 

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wstaab said:
On a street bike I would leave them in. If you race and can lap within 5 seconds of the AMA racers then shorter top out springs might help you.
FYI, according to my suspension tuner, Dave Hodges at GP Suspension, the '05's have shorter top out springs than the '04's. He said he normally shortens the top out springs, but when he saw the shorter ones on the '05 he left them stock.
 

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dpwracing said:
FYI, according to my suspension tuner, Dave Hodges at GP Suspension, the '05's have shorter top out springs than the '04's. He said he normally shortens the top out springs, but when he saw the shorter ones on the '05 he left them stock.
So since the 05 top-out spring is shorter are the regular springs longer to compensate?? could you ask Dave please or if you already know please share.

BD
 
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