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Discussion Starter #1
Highsided my Gen4 pretty badly last race weekend. Bike went into wild roll at 140 km/h, everything is bent including swingarm and broken frame.

Now I'm thinking to upgrade to Gen5 frame.
My Kawa dealer makes me zero profit prices this time and why not go with gen5 frame and adjustable rake angle bearing collars?

I read that gen5 engine fits into gen4 frame.
Have not done much part number comparing jet, only that steering stem bearings are same, meaning I could possibly use my spare complete gen4 front end.

Here my initial questions:

a) As I buy new frame, then I need steering collars (inserts for bearing outer races). Are OEM collars non-excentric and make 24 degree rake? And kit collars are excentric (2 choices 23/25 and 23.5/24.5)?
Who has raced kit collars, how does 23 or 23.5 degrees feel compared to OEM collars?
Intrested to buy kit stem collars.

b) Does Gen4 swingarm fit into Gen5 frame?
Gen5 swingarm is hard to find.

c) If it fits, then is gen5 swingarm better/stronger?
I know it is little longer.

d) If using Gen4 subframe (with Gen5 frame), then does seat heigth change significantly?

Looking for all related infos about possible issues or/and why it could not be possible to do.
 

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The Pace
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best to look into moto salvage for a g4; but, call kawa corp to discover is g4 engine will slide into the g5 frame as you may find g5 frame faster.
 

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A: Not positive but I believe OEM collars and centric, dont know what rake they make though.

B:Dont know for sure but I would guess it would. Although a Gen 5 frame has the parts to flip the swingarm axle and change the geometry and that might not work using a Gen 4 swingarm.


C: Gen 5 swingarm has extra bracing, its where the rear stops/ends and the braces connect the 2 legs or end pieces to the main section of the swingarm. If you view a top down of the Gen 5 VS a Gen 4 you can see it, the Gen 4 has close to 90 degree angles where the tire would reside, where as the Gen 5 has more of a U or rounded shape due to the extra bracing.


Hopefully you can see the picture and notice the parts that I am trying to point out.

D: Dont know, but the Gen 5 subframe works on the Gen 4, you just need all the other associated plastic body pieces to make it work along with the rear subframe.

Also if you can get the 16 year frame, the swing arm pivot is able to be flipped without any special tools. They changed it for the 17 and onward requiring specific tools to change it, dont know why they did.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yes, after closer look at Gen5 swingarm it looks different and is probably stronger or different flex properties. Taking Gen5 swingarm and forget about using Gen4 swingarm.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm almost sure OEM steering collars are perfectly concentric, otherwise service manual would instruct about installing them correct way (it doesen't). Kawa needed to label excentric kit collars certain way and came up with 23/25, sort of "assuming" bore is 24 degrees. In reality they just decrease/increase OEM rake by 1 degree. Have not seen those expensive collars myself.

Do you agree???
 

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It would be interesting to see if you can use all the hardware of a gen4 in a gen5, if the points of leverage are the same should not be a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Also if you can get the 16 year frame, the swing arm pivot is able to be flipped without any special tools. They changed it for the 17 and onward requiring specific tools to change it, dont know why they did.
Did little part number comparing. Frame part number did change with 2017.
Inserts (collars) what go into bare frame at swingarm holes are different too.
30x38x24 changed to 30x47x24
20.5x27x17.5 changed to 20.5x40x17.5

I wonder if they did make 2017 frame stronger at swingarm pivots.
Who knows?
 

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If the swingarm is the same between 16 and 17 then they can bolt up either or. I believe the only difference is the frame change for the pivot, don't think they braced it more or added anything else.

The OEM triple collars are concentric but aren't labeled so.
 
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