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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
hey guys. :hello:

to cut to the chase, I have a gen4 with PC5 installed and tuned already. I want to add a quickshifter. Note: I have vortex rear sets and normal shift pattern setup so id be going with a pressure switch sensor pull type...unless there are things/issues/ideas im not considering? :dontknow:

more importantly, what are your thoughts on the various options? looking for anyone with experience on any to give input... :heyyou: I see alot of people on this board go with the annitori... is that the general consensus? Is it superior in any way?

I see other options such as the Dynojet (which I would have probably gone with by default since I have the Dynojet PC5 and would assume ease and compatibility) but I also see Bazazz, Starlane, Cordona, Translogic, etc...

before anyone gets wise I did do my homework (see below links and my thoughts on each...) so this thread is meant to serve as open discussion for any/everyone else out there considering (or maybe should be considering) the quick shifter option (fyi amazing mod :cool:)

:eyecrazy:
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Products/QuickShifter/powercommander_quick_shifter.aspx ($220, plug and play with existing PC5, cheapest option...)
http://www.bazzaz.net/index.php/quick-shift/quick-shift-overview ($480, model specific, should have went with their full package but i really do love the PC5, wondering if it will plug and play seamlessly with existing setup...)
http://www.translogicusa.com/quickshifters.php ($520, model specific, love the idea of dual sensor, QS both directions up and down...)
http://www.annitorirl.com/product_detail_1.php ($299, model specific, looks great...)
http://www.cordona.net/pq8.htm ($520, not model specific but 'standard' which shouldnt matter...)
http://www.starlane.com/vedit/15/cr...co-acquisizione-dati-PRODOTTI.asp~idprod~1075 ($650, not model specific and not completely positive it is compatible, plus far and beyond the most expensive...)
http://www.hmquickshifter.com/products/product.php?id=1 (looks great, $545, model specific, loom connects to TOP injectors only making it easier to install..)

its late and im loopy, forgive any redundancy or otherwise stupid comments. thanks in advance to all those who join in this productive, helpful, informative, and useful (to me anyway :wink:) discussion.
 

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I think this thread will be good.
I remember reading in a thread a while ago that the ones that cut ignition are supposedly better than the ones that cut fuel? I don't remember the practical difference or the reasoning behind it, but thought it was an interesting point to consider.


BTW, does anyone know if the Kawasaki WSBK team uses a specific brand?
 

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hey guys. :hello:
:eyecrazy:
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Products/QuickShifter/powercommander_quick_shifter.aspx ($220, plug and play with existing PC5, cheapest option...).
ummmmm, I would say no.

You can't just add a Quick Shifter to a PCV on Gens 3 & 4. PCV must have added to it also either a SFM, or QEM or IM module, also.

PCV only controls lower injectors. Injector Balance on Gen 4 is 50 % / 50% so PCV only would cut fuel to lower injectors thus uppers still squirt, thus the need for an additional module PLUS the quick shifter.

So add another $150-300 dollars (depending which part you buy) to your $220.00 cost. :eyecrazy:
 

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I have just done all this reading also. I will be getting the Translogic unit.
 

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ummmmm, I would say no.

You can't just add a Quick Shifter to a PCV on Gens 3 & 4. PCV must have added to it also either a SFM, or QEM or IM module, also.

PCV only controls lower injectors. Injector Balance on Gen 4 is 50 % / 50% so PCV only would cut fuel to lower injectors thus uppers still squirt, thus the need for an additional module PLUS the quick shifter.

So add another $150-300 dollars (depending which part you buy) to your $220.00 cost. :eyecrazy:
:+1: the cost of the DJ stuff should include the cost of all the add-ons needed to make it work.

In addition to cost, you should also consider the type of interrupt - fuel or ignition. The DJ cuts fuel to the motor to unload the tranny. Most of the others use ignition interrupt. I prefer the ignition type unless of course you're on spray or forced induction or something But the ignition is more direct IMO. Also, look at which units allow for kill time setting per gear. My understanding is you only get a single kill time with the annatori unit for all gears. That may not be ideal depending on what you're using it for.

I have a PCV with the Bazzaz QS4 reused from my Gen 3. Couldn't be happier.


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I've got a Translogic on the race bike, running race shift so it's a pull sensor and works on cutting the fuel on the main injectors... it's ok, but at times it doesn't quite behave the way it should, it's weird if you have the throttle at about 75% it doesn't want to know about it... sometimes. Ideally quick shifters work best when at 100% throttle. Guess I just need to grow a bigger pair.

The road bike has a HM shifter (also in race shift) works both push and pull and cuts the ignition to the cylinders, it's incredibly sensitive, brush the lever and you can feel the power cut, just need to sure you place enough pressure on the lever to actually select the next cog. Down side with it working on both push and pull is that when you select first from neutral at a set of lights at idle is that it can result in the bike cutting out and stalling as you select first if you are lazy with your foot. It makes for a notchy change from 1st to 2nd but the other gears are magic. Again it would prefer to be used at 100% throttle, but on the roads you don't get many chances... unless you want to risk prison food for a few months.
 

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I have just done all this reading also. I will be getting the Translogic unit.
Whats funny is the new Translogic with AST (Adaptive Shift technology) looks identical to Dynojets new stand-a-lone box which also boasts the very Adaptive Shift technology, word for word. So who is making it? Dynojet or Translogic lol? :lol:

Getting the Translogic may mean your getting a Dynojet Product, or vice verse. Not that it really matters, just interesting to know.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think this thread will be good.
:) Me too, im excited and will be making a purchase directly on this information (and can provide my feedback afterward of course)

ummmmm, I would say no.

You can't just add a Quick Shifter to a PCV on Gens 3 & 4. PCV must have added to it also either a SFM, or QEM or IM module, also.

PCV only controls lower injectors. Injector Balance on Gen 4 is 50 % / 50% so PCV only would cut fuel to lower injectors thus uppers still squirt, thus the need for an additional module PLUS the quick shifter.

So add another $150-300 dollars (depending which part you buy) to your $220.00 cost. :eyecrazy:
exactly the type of information im looking for... keep it coming. that then brings the dynojet up to the same price as the rest leveling that paying field... and since i dont see many people going with this option, i will assume the reason is just that - it cuts fuel and everyone wants to igition cut (unless someone has pro's for fuel vs ignition that havent come to light yet?)

:+1:
My understanding is you only get a single kill time with the annatori unit for all gears. That may not be ideal depending on what you're using it for.

I have a PCV with the Bazzaz QS4 reused from my Gen 3. Couldn't be happier.
more useful first hand info. so, can i deduce from your comment about the annitori vs your happiness for your bazzaz that you in fact are able to control kill time for each individual gear on your bazzaz unit? also, being that you get one direction, do you feel it would be nice to have on downshift as well or quick-down may seem more of an 'overkill' type thing...?


The road bike has a HM shifter (also in race shift) works both push and pull and cuts the ignition to the cylinders, it's incredibly sensitive, brush the lever and you can feel the power cut, just need to sure you place enough pressure on the lever to actually select the next cog. Down side with it working on both push and pull is that when you select first from neutral at a set of lights at idle is that it can result in the bike cutting out and stalling as you select first if you are lazy with your foot. It makes for a notchy change from 1st to 2nd but the other gears are magic.
does the HM shifter you are using have any sensitivity settings to address that? Or is what your saying that if you dont push hard enough on the lever to jump from ONE to TWO and hit the intermittent NEUTRAL you will stall? or is there more to that i am missing...? I remember when reading through all of those pages some do some dont (and I would rather discuss with you than re-reading it to be honest). Also from your opinion on translogic I think I may rule that out as I will NOT always be using this at WOT and I would rather NOT deal with any sort of twitchty units not behaving the way my driving patterns dictate. Thank you for that.

thanks for everyones feedback, keep it comin, git er done.
 

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more useful first hand info. so, can i deduce from your comment about the annitori vs your happiness for your bazzaz that you in fact are able to control kill time for each individual gear on your bazzaz unit? also, being that you get one direction, do you feel it would be nice to have on downshift as well or quick-down may seem more of an 'overkill' type thing...?
.
Yes, the Bazzaz unit allows different kill times per gear. It's easy to program using software similar to the PCV software tool.

There isn't a quick shifter on the market that allows you to downshift with it. That would require a very expensive and integrated auto-blip controller to rev match the engine and transmission speeds on the downshift. They are expensive and only used for high-end racing applications in most cases. Serious engine and transmission damage can occur if used for downshifting. :headshake: Quite frankly, I NEVER use the quick shifter when up shifting from 1st to 2nd gear to avoid unnecessary possible tranny damage. It's more personal preference, but i know what can happen if something doesn't go right in this zone and I've rebuilt enough trannies to know I don't want to do it again. I use it from 2nd gear up to 6th only. The Bazzaz has been flawless on both my Gen 3 and Gen 4.


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No downshifiting for the 4th gen with any brand. Like skydork said you need an autoblip, and for that you need ride by wire.

One thing i really like about the annitori it is that the sensor and harness are separated, that means if you ever buy a different bike all you need is a new harness which is cheap.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes, the Bazzaz unit allows different kill times per gear. It's easy to program using software similar to the PCV software tool.

There isn't a quick shifter on the market that allows you to downshift with it. That would require a very expensive and integrated auto-blip controller to rev match the engine and transmission speeds on the downshift. They are expensive and only used for high-end racing applications in most cases. Serious engine and transmission damage can occur if used for downshifting.

The Bazzaz has been flawless on both my Gen 3 and Gen 4.
I hear ya, I am leaning towards bazzaz myself upon further reading... I also got the confirmation I was looking for from you indirectly that it will work independently and seamlessly with the PCV ive already got without worry, which was my initial consideration.

anyway, the only reason I even mentioned the 'down shift' is because on the translogic website, they quote:

"DCS has arrived - Dual Channel Sensors

Unique to Translogic is its new DCS (Dual Channel Sensors). These sensors are the only sensors capable of operation in both directions (push and pull) in a single compact design without any unnecessary electronic amplifiers."

after re-reading, i believe that just means that its one unit that can be used for regular shift pattern and then also used for GP if you decide to switch, but upon first reading that last night at 330am in a haze I took it to mean that it sensed both pull and push as in UP and DOWN.... which sounded crazy last night too thinking of how it could work, but thats why i listed it as a thought to consider... thanks again
 

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Yes, the Bazzaz unit allows different kill times per gear. It's easy to program using software similar to the PCV software tool.

There isn't a quick shifter on the market that allows you to downshift with it. That would require a very expensive and integrated auto-blip controller to rev match the engine and transmission speeds on the downshift. They are expensive and only used for high-end racing applications in most cases. Serious engine and transmission damage can occur if used for downshifting. :headshake: Quite frankly, I NEVER use the quick shifter when up shifting from 1st to 2nd gear to avoid unnecessary possible tranny damage. It's more personal preference, but i know what can happen if something doesn't go right in this zone and I've rebuilt enough trannies to know I don't want to do it again. I use it from 2nd gear up to 6th only. The Bazzaz has been flawless on both my Gen 3 and Gen 4.


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I agree 100% with both points. I would never use a QS from 1-2nd, but like you that's a personal preference. :eek:ccasion1
 

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I hear ya, I am leaning towards bazzaz myself upon further reading... I also got the confirmation I was looking for from you indirectly that it will work independently and seamlessly with the PCV ive already got without worry, which was my initial consideration.

anyway, the only reason I even mentioned the 'down shift' is because on the translogic website, they quote:

"DCS has arrived - Dual Channel Sensors

Unique to Translogic is its new DCS (Dual Channel Sensors). These sensors are the only sensors capable of operation in both directions (push and pull) in a single compact design without any unnecessary electronic amplifiers."

after re-reading, i believe that just means that its one unit that can be used for regular shift pattern and then also used for GP if you decide to switch, but upon first reading that last night at 330am in a haze I took it to mean that it sensed both pull and push as in UP and DOWN.... which sounded crazy last night too thinking of how it could work, but thats why i listed it as a thought to consider... thanks again

Yup, you stand correct, it means it can be used for any shift pattern.
I know the Annitori RL also works both ways.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Skydork / SelenaP - can you guys confirm something for me? Regarding the Bazzaz option on my application - since I have a PCV and my AFR has been tuned already, I can simply purchase the "QS4 USB stand alone quick shifter" from Bazzaz and I wont need any other components from them, correct? I ask because I have no experience with bazzaz at all, used PC for tuning my first two bikes... but, when comparing the two companies, the below is correct right?
Z-FI fuel controller = Power Commander
Z-AFM self fuel mapping module = Dynojet Autotune
if so, one more time in summary, I should be alrite with just the QS4 QS addition to my system?

and guys I apologize one more time for sounding uneducated, but Im only going to learn by asking questions :iamwithst
 

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Skydork / SelenaP - can you guys confirm something for me? Regarding the Bazzaz option on my application - since I have a PCV and my AFR has been tuned already, I can simply purchase the "QS4 USB stand alone quick shifter" from Bazzaz and I wont need any other components from them, correct? I ask because I have no experience with bazzaz at all, used PC for tuning my first two bikes... but, when comparing the two companies, the below is correct right?
Z-FI fuel controller = Power Commander
Z-AFM self fuel mapping module = Dynojet Autotune
if so, one more time in summary, I should be alrite with just the QS4 QS addition to my system?

and guys I apologize one more time for sounding uneducated, but Im only going to learn by asking questions :iamwithst
Yes you will be fine.
And your relationships are correct.

The QS4 will just connect to your ignition coils so wont interfere with anything from Dynojet.
 

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Yes you will be fine.
And your relationships are correct.

The QS4 will just connect to your ignition coils so wont interfere with anything from Dynojet.
:+2: QS4 is the only thing you need. Won't need to do anything else to the DJ stuff.


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Discussion Starter #18
I just wanted to point out that I just added the HM option to my initial post so it is there for others when researching... I say this to say we didn't discuss it, thus I don't know if anyone else wants to chime in on it, otherwise I am 99% going with bazzaz based on our discussion. Ill post again upon completion with feedback. thanks.

heres the link: http://www.hmquickshifter.com/products/product.php?id=1
 

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does the HM shifter you are using have any sensitivity settings to address that? Or is what your saying that if you dont push hard enough on the lever to jump from ONE to TWO and hit the intermittent NEUTRAL you will stall? or is there more to that i am missing...? I remember when reading through all of those pages some do some dont (and I would rather discuss with you than re-reading it to be honest). Also from your opinion on translogic I think I may rule that out as I will NOT always be using this at WOT and I would rather NOT deal with any sort of twitchty units not behaving the way my driving patterns dictate. Thank you for that.
Neither of my QS have any adjustment or programming as they are considered as "learning" and will cut fuel/ignition for x amount of milliseconds. I'm dubious about the learning ability of these units, unless the learning ability is compared to a child that used to drink a lot of lead based paints.

As for the stalling, if you are waiting at a set of lights, or about to take off from home, and are in neutral, when you go to select first (because it operates in both push and pull) it will cut the ignition for X milliseconds, because you are at idle, ~800-1000rpm, that brief cut can be enough to stall the engine. It is very rare though. Obviously when you are moving it's never an issue as no matter how slow you are going you'll always be above idle and you'll be accelerating anyway.

As for the WOT, the HM unit (road bike) seems to work well at any throttle position, but as always work better the harder you are riding.

I would put money on it that any quickshifter works better when riding hard as opposed to taking a casual trip to the local shops.

The simple reason for this is that they are a piece of equipment, designed, developed and focused on racing, the emphasis has always been to get the shift times as low as possible with the RPM as high as possible. For the road they are OK, but the true benefits of a quickshifter will only become apparent when you're really on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I would put money on it that any quickshifter works better when riding hard as opposed to taking a casual trip to the local shops.

The simple reason for this is that they are a piece of equipment, designed, developed and focused on racing, the emphasis has always been to get the shift times as low as possible with the RPM as high as possible. For the road they are OK, but the true benefits of a quickshifter will only become apparent when you're really on it.
:+1: definitely agree 100%
 
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