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Discussion Starter #1
hello, I'm notorious for over tightening things.
curious what is the torque by hand for the triple clamp bolts holding the forks and the axle pinch bolts?
At the track I don't have a torque wrench usually and was curious how much to tighten these.
Do other guys use torque wrench for all of these even trackside out of a smaller toolbox and limited time etc?
 

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The torque is the same whether you do it by hand or with the proper tools. Bring the proper tools with you to the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I am bringing the allen set to the track just not the torque wrench.
How much are you tightening them by hand?
I know you don't want to over tighten (especially when you have $2500 forks).
 

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I am bringing the allen set to the track just not the torque wrench.
How much are you tightening them by hand?
I know you don't want to over tighten (especially when you have $2500 forks).

Dude. You're not really understanding. You have to tighten them according to the torque rating. There's no way to measure "hand tightening". It's the same thing. If your hand isn't calibrated to measure 22ft lbs, pack the wrench. You should always bring a tool box to the track with the basics in it. A torque wrench is one of them.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
^^^^ Or this!
I didn't mean that much .. lol
I just meant I probably over tighten slightly to be on the safe side.
But I honestly haven't seen anyone at the track go at it with a torque wrench for the triple clamp bolts that hold the forks, and for sure not the pinch bolts holding the axle after tire change.
Everyone just hand tightens from what I've seen.
 

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I can't speak for everyone but I have a calibrated elbow. :) What I mean by that is after torquing things to spec a certain number of times you get a feel for what 22 ft/lbs, 94 ft/lbs, or 87 in/lbs feels like. If it's what I would consider something non-critical that I remove often I go by feel rather than use a torque wrench. Sometimes knowing that feel is actually better than using a torque wrench in cases where the torque wrench is way out of calibration or isn't working properly. I see more people twist bolts off using a torque wrench because they didn't feel/hear the click and don't know the difference between 22 in/lbs and 22 ft/lbs. Now having said that there are there are things I use a torque wrench on every single time (anything engine related), swingarm bolts, etc. I'll usually use a torque wrench the first time I do something on non-critical parts since I'll take the time to look up the torque values on it anyway. That's called recalibrating my elbow. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That's kind of what I though too. Thanks for the feedback.
I've been using the feel method for all the quick change parts at the track (shocks, forks and anything wheel or brake related). Pegs and that stuff is locktight blue, and engine, swingarm with torque wrench.
I've heard in the part also especially make sure not tightening the bolts that hold to forks too much because could interfere with the internals and the way they work. So I go by hand and never had a problem but was just curious what others have done (especially those racing and have the forks coming on and off the bike all the time).
 

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Discussion Starter #12
My fork pinch bolts only have 2 holes in them so my clip will only fit if they're aligned.



Buy a small tq wrench from crappy tire and kep it in your tool box for the track to adjust the triples and clipons.
Got it, thanks dricked! Keep feeding me all this great info I owe you a beer or few by now! :smile:

What spacers did you use for the pitch bolts to get them further out to fit the pin, and did you switch to longer bolts? That's brilliant by the way.
 

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Torque wrenches are for inside the motor. Outside you do it to feel.


For example; If you torque most axle nuts on any given sportbike to the OEM spec in the service manual it pinches the wheel bearings so hard into the spacer collar that it causes parasitic drag and actually slows down the rotation of the rear wheel. It is much better to forego the torque spec and tighten the axle nut to the point where it starts to slow down the rotation of the wheel then back it off slightly which will alleviate accelerated wear/tear on your bearings and will still be less than the recommended torque spec. Obviously their are similar issues with the front axle and steering head bearings as recently discussed as well.


Additionally torque specs are listed in the service manual for use with many times brand new OEM bolts with or without manufacturer applied locking agents. They do not account for grease, anti-seize or bolt stretching etc as they tell you to use new bolts each time So for all of you guys that insist on using Torque Specs how many of you are also installing new caliper bolts or rotor bolts etc every single time you remove them from the bike?


Exactly...
 

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Torque wrenches are for inside the motor. Outside you do it to feel.


For example; If you torque most axle nuts on any given sportbike to the OEM spec in the service manual it pinches the wheel bearings so hard into the spacer collar that it causes parasitic drag and actually slows down the rotation of the rear wheel. It is much better to forego the torque spec and tighten the axle nut to the point where it starts to slow down the rotation of the wheel then back it off slightly which will alleviate accelerated wear/tear on your bearings and will still be MUCH less than the recommended torque spec.


Additionally torque specs are listed in the service manual for use with many times brand new OEM bolts with or without manufacturer applied locking agents. They do not account for grease, anti-seize or bolt stretching etc as they tell you to use new bolts each time So for all of you guys that insist on using Torque Specs how many of you are also installing new caliper bolts or rotor bolts etc every single time you remove them from the bike?


Exactly...
Now this I agree with, but added the word in black.
 

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LDH said:
Additionally torque specs are listed in the service manual for use with many times brand new OEM bolts with or without manufacturer applied locking agents. They do not account for grease, anti-seize or bolt stretching etc as they tell you to use new bolts each time So for all of you guys that insist on using Torque Specs how many of you are also installing new caliper bolts or rotor bolts etc every single time you remove them from the bike?
There is a big difference in putting a steel rotor bolt into a cast aluminum wheel hub vs an axle nut pinching the bearings. Bolt stretch is not a consideration in the rotors, stripping the threads are. Getting the torque on the axle correct as to not deform and pinch the forks/swingarm into the bearings is not the same as what we're talking about here.

Clamping force on the triple tree is a bit more precise than the above. There is a big difference between 50 in-lbs of force and 50 ft-lbs. So to say to someone "just hand tighten the bolts" is the wrong advise. One person's "hand tight" is another person's over-torque. If you can't figure out how to get the screw/bolt/nut tightened to within a few ft-lbs of the recommended torque without having a torque wrench, then get a torque wrench. We're not quibbling over 2 ft-lbs difference between hand and torque wrench here. We're talking about gross differences for most people. You don't clamp the triple tree "until the bolt almost snaps off". And you don't tighten them until there's "just some resistance" on them. There needs to be the proper clamping of the triple tree within a small range. Some people can hand tighten to within the tolerances of the recommended torque specs. Most cannot.
 

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There is a big difference in putting a steel rotor bolt into a cast aluminum wheel hub vs an axle nut pinching the bearings. Bolt stretch is not a consideration in the rotors, stripping the threads are. Getting the torque on the axle correct as to not deform and pinch the forks/swingarm into the bearings is not the same as what we're talking about here.

Clamping force on the triple tree is a bit more precise than the above. There is a big difference between 50 in-lbs of force and 50 ft-lbs. So to say to someone "just hand tighten the bolts" is the wrong advise. One person's "hand tight" is another person's over-torque. If you can't figure out how to get the screw/bolt/nut tightened to within a few ft-lbs of the recommended torque without having a torque wrench, then get a torque wrench. We're not quibbling over 2 ft-lbs difference between hand and torque wrench here. We're talking about gross differences for most people. You don't clamp the triple tree "until the bolt almost snaps off". And you don't tighten them until there's "just some resistance" on them. There needs to be the proper clamping of the triple tree within a small range. Some people can hand tighten to within the tolerances of the recommended torque specs. Most cannot.
Well granted a lot of people are devoid of commonsense and have little mechanical feel, but I stand by my statement. When tightening a triple tree pinch bolt it is extremely easy to over-tighten them when using a torque wrench due to the aforementioned bolt stretching or some form of lubrication on the threads etc not to mention torque wrenches that are out of calibration from being cheap or 50 years old or dropped/thrown around in tool boxes for years.

As a professional tuner I have seen dozens of sets of forks that have pinch marks from overtightened triple clamps. If you are going to work on your own bike then you need to gain an understanding and get a feel for how things work together. Just saying "use the specs in the service manual" is not the answer to get things to work together properly. It is more complicated than that and getting people to realize that those specs are not set in stone is the first part of that awareness they must learn to become proficient at working on their own bikes.
 

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Some who have mechanical tradesmen work fields (past or present) have usually got a feel for nipping up that nut or bolt to get by, but I do use a torque wrench changing say front fork bolts but have found factory set levels just seem to high! Just lower my torque wrench down a few N/M!
 

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I'm just a little curious here (while talking about fork bolt torque settings) and Serialize mentioned $2500 forks (Ohlins) and LDH has them I'm think! That the bottom axle (4×M8) are titanium!allways wanted to ask but didn't want to come across silly
 

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Those are indeed titanium pinch bolts on the Ohlins forks

Something else that bears mentioning on this subject of dual pinch bolts is that the same guy that doesn't understand how to tighten them to feel may very well not understand how to tighten them with a torque wrench either.

I have on multiple occasions while servicing a customers bike (especially Ducati triple clamps) seen one bolt of the pair end up being loose because someone tightened one of the bolts to the torque spec then tightened the other one to the torque spec and never bothered to recheck the first one which ends up being loose once the other side of the pinch clamp is tightened further etc. (the issue can be even more exacerbated on aftermarket triple clamps with 3 bolts on the lower) They simply don't know the process of going back & forth in small increments of pressure to each bolt head to get an even load on the clamp.
 
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