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Ok i will start by saying im no ama racer. however i like watching it on tv. but this latest issue with traction controll really has me bugged... The ama "Suspects" traction controll on a certain brand {sazuk} :lol: well then they say this is a bad thing
Boooo sazuk! you guys suck!!!! :fu2:
Then the ama comes out and sais well we will rewrite the book to allow this...WTF?
what do you mean that here in mid season you have cought someone breaking the rules mid season and now instead of punishing them we just say "aw fuck it" and rewrite the books? what is this shit? where is the credibility? This is like saying im going to go ride in the ama...but im not that good so I'll use a Porch....dont like fuck you rewrite the books! Im a bike killin mother fucker! dont like that rewrite the laws! My point is there are rules. if they need to be changed do it next season. in my eyes sazuk owns the ama...and not in a good way. i wish they would broadcast the wera or ccs events on tv so i didnt have to watch this bullshit.
 

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10 speed said:
Ok i will start by saying im no ama racer. however i like watching it on tv. but this latest issue with traction controll really has me bugged... The ama "Suspects" traction controll on a certain brand {sazuk} :lol: well then they say this is a bad thing
Boooo sazuk! you guys suck!!!! :fu2:
Then the ama comes out and sais well we will rewrite the book to allow this...WTF?
what do you mean that here in mid season you have cought someone breaking the rules mid season and now instead of punishing them we just say "aw fuck it" and rewrite the books? what is this shit? where is the credibility? This is like saying im going to go ride in the ama...but im not that good so I'll use a Porch....dont like fuck you rewrite the books! Im a bike killin mother fucker! dont like that rewrite the laws! My point is there are rules. if they need to be changed do it next season. in my eyes sazuk owns the ama...and not in a good way. i wish they would broadcast the wera or ccs events on tv so i didnt have to watch this bullshit.
Werd, preach on bro.:+1:
 

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Damn Straight ---- They should have waited till next season to do the changes and fine or penalize the teams using traction control
 

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Very ligit beef there. Lets send this thread to the commish. of ama
 

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:+1: i think the ama fucked up fo sho but what u gonna do to suzuki, fine the "most" influential team on the paddock? they bring more money than honda i think and a fine would irritate than punish.
 

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Please - they never caught anyone with traction control. We all know Suzuki has it, but how do you prove it? Could anyone take all the lines of code from the onboard 'puter and find the 'traction control' lines? Not possible.

Plus, with all the restructuring the AMA did, and then to have absolutely no direction or leadership, when they finally did get the rules committee together they had to do 'something' and TC was a hot (if useless) topic. Now the AMA can point and say, "See, we take action!" All they did was level the playing field, probably at the request of Honda. Don't think for a second that Suzuki brings more $$ to the AMA than Honda!
 

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lavudyar said:
Please - they never caught anyone with traction control. We all know Suzuki has it, but how do you prove it? Could anyone take all the lines of code from the onboard 'puter and find the 'traction control' lines? Not possible.

Plus, with all the restructuring the AMA did, and then to have absolutely no direction or leadership, when they finally did get the rules committee together they had to do 'something' and TC was a hot (if useless) topic. Now the AMA can point and say, "See, we take action!" All they did was level the playing field, probably at the request of Honda. Don't think for a second that Suzuki brings more $$ to the AMA than Honda!
i thought they (suzuki) brought more money lavudyar, but from the google video's that were going around you can clearly hear the suzuki miss firing on the turns. whether that was tc i am not sure but people that in the know were certain it was.
 

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Yes, like I said: we all know they have it but again, how do you PROVE it? You can't, at least not economically.

As for money, Honda is the largest MC mfg in the world and they spend a prodigious amount in the US, much more than Suzuki does (or needs to for that matter).

And besides all that, the Suzuki TC was LEGAL according to the AMA rules!
 

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lavudyar said:
Yes, like I said: we all know they have it but again, how do you PROVE it? You can't, at least not economically.

As for money, Honda is the largest MC mfg in the world and they spend a prodigious amount in the US, much more than Suzuki does (or needs to for that matter).

And besides all that, the Suzuki TC was LEGAL according to the AMA rules!
thank you for clarifying:notworthy
 

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cain772 said:
:+1: i think the ama fucked up fo sho but what u gonna do to suzuki, fine the "most" influential team on the paddock? they bring more money than honda i think and a fine would irritate than punish.
Don't fine them, just suspend the entire Yoshimura Suzuki Team for the rest of the year and strip them of any possible hope for the championship. They're always boasting during all their commercials about how many championships they've won, I say prevent them from getting another one by cheating! Exploit their unethical approach to racing and advertise that shit!

SUZUKI..........."The brand that more CHEATERS choose!"
 

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lavudyar said:
Yes, like I said: we all know they have it but again, how do you PROVE it? You can't, at least not economically.

As for money, Honda is the largest MC mfg in the world and they spend a prodigious amount in the US, much more than Suzuki does (or needs to for that matter).

And besides all that, the Suzuki TC was LEGAL according to the AMA rules!
If according to the AMA rules the Suzuki TC was legal, it was more than likely another lobbyist push by the "Brand that more Champions choose." Give me a fucking break.

Also, I'll tell you how you fucking PROVE they were using TC (cheating). You simply have an unbiased race team prepare a couple superbikes for the all dominating Mladin and Spies and make them race those bikes during a weekend and see how they fare. Even listen for how the bikes sound in the corners. I bet they sound just like every other bike on the track and I bet they don't win by no fucking 5 second margin!!:thefinger

Sorry for all the f-bombs, I'm just REALLY pissed about this whole deal.
 

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I am kinda torn about the TC in superbike. They are "superbikes" after all. Yes Suzuki and Ducati have been using it for a couple of years now. And if the AMA was worth a damn they would have said something. But to prove and then not allow it is much harder. Allowing all the teams to have it in superbike is fine. But yes the rule should have been changed for next year and Suzuki and Ducati should have been penalized this year. I think taking away half of their wins would be a start.

I guess the thing that pisses me off the most about this is the unethical side of it. Mladin and Speis are walking all over the rest of the field and no one says a word. Not even the other racers (i.e. Duhamel, Zemke, Hayden, etc.) It is like steroids in sports. An unfair advantage for those using them against those who try to do things in the spirit of the competition. So now we, the fan of motorcycle racing, are really not seeing the best riders win the race. Do we even know who the best rider is anymore. With the advantage that TC gives the riders, they don't need to be in as good as shape as the guy who doesn't use TC. Nor do they have to be as good at riding the bike.
 

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lavudyar said:
Yes, like I said: we all know they have it but again, how do you PROVE it? You can't, at least not economically.

As for money, Honda is the largest MC mfg in the world and they spend a prodigious amount in the US, much more than Suzuki does (or needs to for that matter).

And besides all that, the Suzuki TC was LEGAL according to the AMA rules!
Actually it can be found rather easy, the wheel speed sensors can be traced and there electrical circuit can be drawn out. As for honda, they are one of the lowest budget teams here in the USA. HRC does not share any info or give them any money. Honda America is totally different than HRC.
When they confiscated the front wheels off of the zuks at the last few races, they were just wasting time. The sensor is not in the front wheel. It has to be on the drive side.
 

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Riddick said:
If according to the AMA rules the Suzuki TC was legal, it was more than likely another lobbyist push by the "Brand that more Champions choose." Give me a fucking break.
Here's your break - the AMA rule was in existence well before it was an issue. IIRC it dates from the 80's. And again, don't believe for a second that Suzuki could push a rule through that Honda didn't want. That being said, why all the anger if Suzuki wasn't even breaking a rule? Sounds like sour grapes to me - Suzuki was smart enough to gain an advantage within the rules and now everybody except the competition is crying about it. Boo-f**king-hoo.

Riddick said:
Also, I'll tell you how you fucking PROVE they were using TC (cheating). You simply have an unbiased race team prepare a couple superbikes for the all dominating Mladin and Spies and make them race those bikes during a weekend and see how they fare. Even listen for how the bikes sound in the corners. I bet they sound just like every other bike on the track and I bet they don't win by no fucking 5 second margin!!:thefinger
How soon they forget - Mladin was doing that when he was on a 750, remember? The only way to beat him was to 'cheat' and use a 1000cc twin. And your idea, while plausible, still doesn't prove anything. You haven't shown that Suzuki broke any rules, and just because you take away Mat and Ben's tools doesn't make them any less capable as racers (though I think Ben would struggle while Mat would be winning).
 

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I dont understand why you all hate the idea of TC?? Moto GP has used it for a while along with WSBK! I think the great part is, if these teams can refine it in AMA, then maybe in a few years, you can buy a liter bike with some sort of TC from the factory. And as we all know, if the pattern continues with the HP numbers going up every year, we are going to need TC just to keep that rear wheel under us!
 

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madkaw said:
Actually it can be found rather easy, the wheel speed sensors can be traced and there electrical circuit can be drawn out. As for honda, they are one of the lowest budget teams here in the USA. HRC does not share any info or give them any money. Honda America is totally different than HRC.
When they confiscated the front wheels off of the zuks at the last few races, they were just wasting time. The sensor is not in the front wheel. It has to be on the drive side.
Uh, Suzuki isn't using wheel speed sensors for their TC. They're using lean angle sensors (which are required by AMA rules and thus not illegal) and engine management programming (again, not illegal according to the rules as they were written). So how do you find the specific code that is TC?

As for Honda:
1) HRC is no longer involved in AMA Superbike, hasn't been for 2 years - the Honda race effort is run by American Honda now. And if you think they're spending less than anyone you're being naive.
2) Racing budgets and AMA influence are not related - Honda is the Top Dog in the MSMA and spends more on influence and advertising than is probably healthy for the sport.
 

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The AMA found itself in the same exact position that Formula 1 car racing was in a few years ago, over the same issue.

The old AMA rule prohibited front wheel speed sensors. No problem, Suzuki's system didn't use one. The other language that implied illegallity of traction control was too vague.

It's impossible to enforce a prohibition on traction control because you can implement strategies in an ECU that are, in effect, a form of traction control. It might not be as sophisticated as a complete vehicle stability control system with various bank and yaw sensors and wheel speed monitored front and rear ... but you can still have something there. What constitutes traction control?

Action HAD to be taken mid-season because this was becoming a big hot-topic issue.

The AMA did the same thing that Formula 1 was forced to do: If you can't enforce a ban, you might as well allow it, because it is going to happen anyway.
 
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