[coolgjc]

after i hi-jacked a thread of JBlaze's, i deleted my posts and started a new thread.


with the gearing changing over the years it got me thinking. the weight has changed along with the wheel base too.

gearing;
gen 1 17/39
gen 2 17/40
gen 3 17/41

although i don't have the weights or wheelbases in front of me, they both have grown over the years aswell, correct? if you know the wheelbases and weights list it up!!!!

now i'm aware of the advances in suspension and braking that have taken place over the years, but with the gearing and weight and wheelbase also changing my question is...

if i can change my brakes to make them better, and upgrade my suspension, change my gearing a little, what else separates these bikes? what changes other than the aformentioned, makes the gen 1 inferior to the others? or does it?

now i'm not looking to get into a pissing match(although i'm sure you retards will turn it into one) but more or less looking for insight from the ones who know what sets one apart from the other?

folks that i would like to gather info from are the likes of Alien10, 9r to 10r, JBlaze, olderguy, vonstallin, and anyone else that has had different gen bikes at the same time. what are the pros and cons from one to the other? what about our racers that have set up the bikes to the fullest potential? track guys and drag racers alike. Ruthless Racing is a guy i would love to here from. what made you switch to gsxr?

as i said above, not a pissin' match, just want to have folks list the pros and cons that they have experienced. what can you teach me about a newer 10r that would convince me to give up my gen 1?

 

[abzx10r]

You already have my .02 cents, I just want to see what people have to say, but truthfully jplaze is one of best people to ask cause he has so many bikes, heck he has like 2 first gens and a second gen. I'm sure he will add his info too. Good luck with the thread, it might not turn out the way you hope but us that know what your really asking is all that counts right!!! But so you know I mean, when you say upgrading brakes, suspension, gearing ect. there isnt a shit ton left you can do in less you start with upgrading big time turbo, bore kit, clutch, stacks ect.

 

[ZX-10R_Sinner]

04-05: 54.5" wheelbase, 375 dry weight
06-07: 54.7" wheelbase, 386 dry weight
08-09: 55.7" wheelbase, 395 dry weight

Significant motor changes throughout the years, I'm not going to get into power, or power delivery, but it's obviously gotten tamer over the years. I can get into this more later but it's time for bed.

 

[jdgun_13]

How about we get into the rake & trail numbers as well..
Something else is swingarm length and linkage ratios..

Playing with a 3rd gen swingarm on my bike now, and also debating playing with the front end geometry as i have the attack racing triples..would love to get some specs from the 04/05 WSBK's.

 

[or10r]

Hard to believe that the 3rd gen is heavier than the 1st when you see them side by side. The 1st gen seems so much bigger than the 3rd.

 

[abzx10r]

yeah they do, friend had a 04 before he traded it in for a left over 08 zx10r and it looks so wide compared to it

 

[coolgjc]

How about we get into the rake & trail numbers as well..
Something else is swingarm length and linkage ratios..

Playing with a 3rd gen swingarm on my bike now, and also debating playing with the front end geometry as i have the attack racing triples..would love to get some specs from the 04/05 WSBK's.

you got my attention jdgun. i'm interested to hear what you come up with keep us posted. and maybe someone on here can hook you up as well:thumbsup:

 

[tedg04]

04-05: 54.5" wheelbase, 375 dry weight
06-07: 54.7" wheelbase, 386 dry weight
08-09: 55.7" wheelbase, 395 dry weight

Significant motor changes throughout the years, I'm not going to get into power, or power delivery, but it's obviously gotten tamer over the years. I can get into this more later but it's time for bed.

Ok, regardless of power delivery, is it a general concensus that whp has increased from gen to gen? If so, by what margin?

My .02 - I have a ton more fun on my 04 than riding my room mate's 07. It just feels tame by comparison. Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it. It feels substantially slower, like I can actually hit WOT like an idiot in first and not worry about sitting on the road watching the bike cartwheel away from me - mine doesn't do that. Riding side by side, we are generally pretty even, but I have probably 40lbs on him now.

I think in raw power output, you probably need a thin head gasket, degreed cams, full system, and a good tune to make the same as a 3rd gen, but is the first comparably quick without it? :dontknow:

Need my buddy with his 09 to really go riding with me.

 

[tittermary]

Hard to believe that the 3rd gen is heavier than the 1st when you see them side by side. The 1st gen seems so much bigger than the 3rd.

everyone seems to forget that when you do the basic mods the weights are a lot closer, the 08 and 07's have much heavier exhausts

 

[coolgjc]

Need my buddy with his 09 to really go riding with me.

thanks Ted on the comparison with an '07. looking forward to getting input when you ride with your '09 buddy.

hopefully here in the next couple weeks i'll get down to St.Louis area again and hook up with Dave (WhatARush) again. we told one another we would switch bikes for a bit to get a feel of the differences ourselves. he has an '07 but i'm not sure it will be a fair comparison as he has had some suspension work done to his:badteeth:

 

[Ervins]

This is good info...Seems it has grown...I love my Gen2 but if every model year a new 10R came out, I would get one for sure. Kawi love.

 

[bird_dog0347]

Goldfish has a first gen, I have a third. The bikes are so completely different that someone who had no idea what they were and there were no stickers or anything, would have a very hard time believing it is the same bike just 3 years apart... (05 - 08)

They ride totally different, feel totally different, both have monster engines, and with roughly the same basic mods are pretty even with the nod to the 08 in a straight line race. We swapped bikes for a ride and both were blown away how different they really are. You sit ON an 08, you sit IN an 05.

 

[tasos]

All 3 gen's are different.

1) The engines have some differences:
Improved oil channels (08). Heavier flywheel (06). Generators not working @ double engine speed (06-08). Secondary injectors (08). A Kawi tactic is to put the race cams of the previous model to the next one + some porting, thus the ~5-10hp difference in each model.

2) Chassis: Big differences. Over the years Kawi went from agressive geometries (rake/trail) to smoother ones. This made the bike (each gen) to handle better. They also changed the degrees of engine position in the frame. Also changed the swingarm in all models, in seek of a better setup/feeling. The rear shock is not very good on any gen, the fronts of the 08 are the best so far.

All these along with the engine changes make the bike handle better and thus going faster, by putting the power to the ground.

The 3rd gen is the better bike in that sense, because it puts the power down better than the others. Suspension and brakes can be changed in any model if you have the $$$.

People have not started to heavily mod 08's yet to be able to compare.
If we can find more power in the 08's (like around 180hp) it would be awesome !!! But for sure the technology limits are starting to show. How about pneumatic valves? How about bigger revs? All these are relatively easy and able to give more power :thumbsup:

 

[TheOriginalNinjaJew]

lets not forget chain to swingarm angle. lateral flex built into frames and swingarms. kawi does a wonderful thing, they put money into the motor first and skimp elsewhere... hence all us gen 2 guys are buying other calipers.... of course if we were trying to squeeze another 10hp and 3ftlbs of tourque out of an r1 it would cost us more..

lets not get sidetracked.... if we look at the pure numbers lets all remember to look not just at power/weight.. rake/trail, lateral flex, CG, geometry between handlebars seat and pegs, power delivery at any rpm, how little you have to spend modding suspension to make it worthy of agressive/track riding.

(in this im throwing away exhaust&pc mods, and mods im going to call preferencial, throttle insert, 2nd butterflies, wich make a world of difference but not as serious as exhaust&pc... wich if your doing seperately, go back, and do the other before you comment)

no more of this dry weight stuff guys, lets see what these buggers weigh full up on fuel, and 32psi... dry weight is not a realistic scenario...

so to me, gen one was beastly, NEEDED serious time on the front forks to make it capable of handling the track and a back road(not one or the other, both) and of course thats my opinion but im no slouch. the gen 2 is my favorite....and dont count out that its because imo it looks the best and i happen to have just ridden home on one. the 2nd gen can be described as less agressive... but get it over 6k and its still back-in-it-in good times, still will spit you off if your an ass with the throttle... 3rd gen Ive HEARD just climbs through the revs mind boggling fast.

theres one theme youll see running through this threas, i mean my post and yours, and the thread and every non-squid out there. most of moto riding is confidence, preference will make the difference untill your a top level racing(with then of course no moto that resembles anything we happen to ride) and idk about you guys, but if i was fullpro racer... i wouldnt be around at 230a nailing on a zx10 forum.
the above comment is NOT to take validity out of the thread, just mental chewing gum as we sword fight over our bikes. always, cost V performance. and theres many definitions of performance.
non of this should be taken out of context, read everything before you take a single peice out and complain.

 

[coolgjc]

the sword fighting and complaining is not what i intended this thread to become, nor do i think it has. i haven't ridden a gen 2 or gen 3. as i stated in the opening post, i don't want this to turn into a pissin' match. i want experiences and opinions from those that have been on them all. tasos post is a factual interpretation of what the 10r has evolved into and it was appreciated.

i'm a diehard Kawi guy myself with an '05. i could potentially be in the market for another bike and want opinions from those that have been on the others. should i be content with my gen 1? does the gen 2 or 3 have more to offer my riding style?

to be honest, i have thought about getting a 14. but if the gen 3 is totally different like others have stated, then my choice gets a little tougher. i love my '05 and won't be getting rid of it. i'm just weighing all my options on what bike i will be adding to the stables

 

[ZX-10R_Sinner]

everyone seems to forget that when you do the basic mods the weights are a lot closer, the 08 and 07's have much heavier exhausts

Yup, my bike with a full tank of gas, and some other junk was 434, we have a scale at work and I drove at most 100 yards, so that's fairly competitive, could be better though, first gens can get into the 42x's pretty easy from what I've seen, and the third gens can get down into the 43x's as well.

the sword fighting and complaining is not what i intended this thread to become, nor do i think it has. i haven't ridden a gen 2 or gen 3. as i stated in the opening post, i don't want this to turn into a pissin' match. i want experiences and opinions from those that have been on them all. tasos post is a factual interpretation of what the 10r has evolved into and it was appreciated.

i'm a diehard Kawi guy myself with an '05. i could potentially be in the market for another bike and want opinions from those that have been on the others. should i be content with my gen 1? does the gen 2 or 3 have more to offer my riding style?

to be honest, i have thought about getting a 14. but if the gen 3 is totally different like others have stated, then my choice gets a little tougher. i love my '05 and won't be getting rid of it. i'm just weighing all my options on what bike i will be adding to the stables

I'm on the same page as you coolgjc, hence why I don't wanna get to involved here, I love all gens, but if I'm to buy another bike there is no doubt in my mind that it will be a green or black 04/05, KEEP YOURS! I believe I sent you a message on my impression of my bike awhile back. I couldn't believe the people complaining about their bikes bogging below 5K, when mine will loft the front end up that early in 1st gear, I'm not sure that's something to brag about to a first gen owner though.:badteeth:

My bike's running awfully lean though, need to get that taken care of...:idea:

Forgot, yes tasos hit the nail on the head, I might need to have a chat with you sometime man. 04-07 was rated by Kawi as the same power, yet there were quite a few changes in the motor, I know they got finer atomizing injectors, smaller intake port, some other things that I can't think of right now.

 

[Ingjr]

Take it for what it's worth (almost nothing) but most bike makers improve on all their machines from one year to the next. Generally-more power, less weight, improved ergos, easier maintenace, more refinement, etc. etc. :dontknow:

 

[925stunna]

My 08 feels nothing like my 05. I know you guys have covered alot, but my 08 stock vs. stock felt alot smoother with buttloads more torque, very usable power but still throws you back hard at high rpm's, very planted to the ground, better stock tires. I know my 05 looked tons better but my 08 is still growing on me and i really like it now. Most of that 20lb diff can be made up removing the stock exhaust.

The 04/05 is in NO WAY inferior or outdated compard to newer bikes, its sexier, lighter and will still hang or beat the newer 1k's. You can never go wrong having a 1st gen!!!!!!!

 

[coolgjc]

KEEP YOURS! I believe I sent you a message on my impression of my bike awhile back.

ya we've talked before bro. i'm still waiting on that jumper mod you were gonna dyno and post results of.:lol:

My 08 feels nothing like my 05. I know you guys have covered alot, but my 08 stock vs. stock felt alot smoother with buttloads more torque, very usable power but still throws you back hard at high rpm's, very planted to the ground, better stock tires. I know my 05 looked tons better but my 08 is still growing on me and i really like it now. Most of that 20lb diff can be made up removing the stock exhaust.

The 04/05 is in NO WAY inferior or outdated compard to newer bikes, its sexier, lighter and will still hang or beat the newer 1k's. You can never go wrong having a 1st gen!!!!!!!

thanks stunna. i appreciate your input. that's what i was after, a non-bashing point of view.

don't get me wrong though fellas. i love my '05. it's paid for and has sentimental value as well. it will not bother me one bit to let it sit in the garage while i'm out on "the new flavor of the week".

 

[tasos]

should i be content with my gen 1? does the gen 2 or 3 have more to offer my riding style?
to be honest, i have thought about getting a 14. but if the gen 3 is totally different like others have stated, then my choice gets a little tougher.

Generally newer models have more to offer. If the manufacturers did their job right, these are small increments. By no means you are outdated or anything.

The human brain is ADJUSTING to what it knows/learns. That is why all gen owners have "emotions" about their bikes that they won't let go. That first riding impression said so much to us all !!! I suggest that you ride a gen3, preferrably modded to have a real life personal comparison.

I faced what you are facing now. At a time i had the 14 and all gen 10's. I had to choose 2 bikes that i would keep for life and play/sell the rest. Although i miss my 14 sometimes... i chose the gen1 and the gen3. :thumbsup: