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Discussion Starter #1
I wanted to know for myself really what the weight and design differences were from the OEM Ti system and the aftermarket Graves system.

Well I bought a Graves slipon a few months back. I actually enjoy the sound of it, it isn't what I would call loud. That is a plus!!

Then a forum member posted up a used Full SS Graves system.. Of course, most people know that there isn't alot TOP END POWER to be gained over the VERY WELL designed OEM Titanium system from Kawasaki.

But what the Full aftermarket system offers is HUGE amount of streetable and some dragracing HP>>>> Both Graves and Brock's full system make 10-15 HP more horsepower in the midrange over the stock headers with and without a slipon exhaust. So, the top end power gains might be small but that is a huge gain in midrange power. That's why I jumped on it!!

I did a generic scale test with me on a digital scale. I weighed in a 164.4 shoes and shorts in my shop. Then took the Graves slipon system with OEM headers and held it while on the scale. Did the same for the Full Graves system also. The Graves muffler for the slipon system and the full system are the same exact muffler. But everything else is completely different.

The OEM headers with Ti/CF Graves slipon weighed in at 173.0 Putting the system weighing in at 8.6 lbs OR 8 lbs 10 oz

The Full SS Graves with Ti/CF muffler weighed in at 174.4 Putting the entire system weighing in at 10 lbs....

You can see the slight changes in the header design but the biggest difference is the longer 2 pipes collector area of the Graves. There is almost no 1 large diameter pipe on the Graves system,, just right before it goes into the muffler.

This also can be seen in the Brock's design, if you look closely near their muffler you will see 2 long pipes going all the way back into the muffler. Brock's dyno runs are done within 1 hour of each other.. and the graphs are located in the "product details" tab at the bottom of the paragraph.

Information was from these 2 websites.. http://www.gravesport.com/Graves-Motorsports-Kawasaki-ZX10R-Full-Stainless-Exhaust.html

and

http://www.brocksperformance.com/Alien-Head-2-Full-System-+I397411+C236.aspx
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
I wanted to add a few more pictures and the Dyno Graphs from the websites.
 

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^Agreed

Thank you for doing the review Patrick. Will you be putting your bike on the dyno as well?

The one thing though like you said, the header would be worth it for a lot of street use, or even circuit racing given the fact you might be lower in the rev range. Did you notice much of a difference at the track with how the bike felt? Since the gain is in around 7k you won't really be in that rev range going down the strip.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
^Agreed

Thank you for doing the review Patrick. Will you be putting your bike on the dyno as well?

The one thing though like you said, the header would be worth it for a lot of street use, or even circuit racing given the fact you might be lower in the rev range. Did you notice much of a difference at the track with how the bike felt? Since the gain is in around 7k you won't really be in that rev range going down the strip.
I just got it installed yesterday on my day off and have Zero time on the bike since I installed it. I will have it dyno tuned this week before racing this next weekend and will post up the dyno chart comparing the 2 of them (Slipon and Full system).

Well.. That is what sold me on the full system really.. I am FAR from a professional. Even the gentleman I bought it from wasn't quite there but had a professional rider on his bike. The professional launched it at 10000 RPMs.

So with me being a NON-professional and not having the "skills" to launch at 10000 RPMs. The full system will assist me in being faster off the line. I am "only" launching at 6000-6500 right now so that is a HUGE increase in HP!!!! :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
what is the diameter of the secondaries long pipes and diameter of the pipe going in the muffler?
I will get that to you tomorrow.
:thumbsup:Been out riding and killing curves on Ole faithful..
 

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The dyno that Brock's show are not apples to apples though. It is a stock system, no tune. Then a slip on, no tune, then a full system with a tune.

Just pointing out the facts
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
The dyno that Brock's show are not apples to apples though. It is a stock system, no tune. Then a slip on, no tune, then a full system with a tune.

Just pointing out the facts
you didn't read the description at all... It is right below that DYNO picture. IN BLUE> RED AND GREEN writing.
Each Brock's system (slipon and full) had a PCV with the "street map" installed. The stock system had a "powercommander" map installed.:lol:
U failed....:eek:ccasion1

Just pointing out the facts....
 

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Great write-up. It will be interesting to see the dyno graph comparisons you come up with. I personally will be going with a Brock's full system when money allows.

P.S. You need to lose weight. 164 is terrible man.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Great write-up. It will be interesting to see the dyno graph comparisons you come up with. I personally will be going with a Brock's full system when money allows.

P.S. You need to lose weight. 164 is terrible man.
:thefinger that's 164 in shoes and clothes man. I would look worse then you if I weighed any less..
 

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you didn't read the description at all... It is right below that DYNO picture. IN BLUE> RED AND GREEN writing.
Each Brock's system (slipon and full) had a PCV with the "street map" installed. The stock system had a "powercommander" map installed.:lol:
U failed....:eek:ccasion1

Just pointing out the facts....

Agreed, I guess I shouldnt post from my phone. The reason that I chimed in (with my obviously shit reading skills) is that we tested 2 different full systems vs the graves and the akra slip ons. One was the leo vince full system, the other was the akra full system. We found a 3-4 hp gain at 8000 rpm. They both lost power at 11,000rpm in each. Nothing noticeable in the top.

Those runs were all done with kit cams and the thin head gasket

Long story short, the gains didn't seem worth the expense.

So when we built my race bike we used the slip on and called it a day. As you stated the weight diff. is nearly nothing, so the gains were minimal.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Agreed, I guess I shouldnt post from my phone. The reason that I chimed in (with my obviously shit reading skills) is that we tested 2 different full systems vs the graves and the akra slip ons. One was the leo vince full system, the other was the akra full system. We found a 3-4 hp gain at 8000 rpm. They both lost power at 11,000rpm in each. Nothing noticeable in the top.

Those runs were all done with kit cams and the thin head gasket

Long story short, the gains didn't seem worth the expense.

So when we built my race bike we used the slip on and called it a day. As you stated the weight diff. is nearly nothing, so the gains were minimal.
:thumbsup: Right on.. I'm glad you posted that up. I'm not saying that it was necessary to get a full system but I figured since I had only seen a few dyno graphs on any exhausts comparisions so I thought that I would try it out on my local dyno.
I have dyno graphs of my slipon systems so hopefully I can confirm or bust what is being advertised on the internet.
I'm just a curious as everyone else to see the results for myself.
 

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:thumbsup: Right on.. I'm glad you posted that up. I'm not saying that it was necessary to get a full system but I figured since I had only seen a few dyno graphs on any exhausts comparisions so I thought that I would try it out on my local dyno.
I have dyno graphs of my slipon systems so hopefully I can confirm or bust what is being advertised on the internet.
I'm just a curious as everyone else to see the results for myself.
Looking forward to seeing your results
 

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I just got it installed yesterday on my day off and have Zero time on the bike since I installed it. I will have it dyno tuned this week before racing this next weekend and will post up the dyno chart comparing the 2 of them (Slipon and Full system).

Well.. That is what sold me on the full system really.. I am FAR from a professional. Even the gentleman I bought it from wasn't quite there but had a professional rider on his bike. The professional launched it at 10000 RPMs.

So with me being a NON-professional and not having the "skills" to launch at 10000 RPMs. The full system will assist me in being faster off the line. I am "only" launching at 6000-6500 right now so that is a HUGE increase in HP!!!! :thumbsup:
Non-professional. You know how to ride man :thumbsup: There is something to be said for running very consistent fast times. You almost ran in the 8's on pump 87 and no QS.
 

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:thefinger that's 164 in shoes and clothes man. I would look worse then you if I weighed any less..
You wish you were as handsome as me. :wink:

I'm 177 in shorts. Need to drop about 15lbs, then I'll be happy and have a competitive race weight.
 
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