[ddipaola]

New to this topic so bear with me... I definitely want to upgrade both the frt & rr suspension at some point on my Gen5 (especially since I'm convinced she's gonna be track dedicated). In the interest of my financials, I was thinking of starting with an Ohlins TTX rear shock but I didn't want to pull the trigger on 50% of the suspension then go hit the track. Additionally I'm ordering through STG so, based on what the worker told me, it sounds they use the rider information you provide (weight and riding style) to adequately pick a good otb spring rate.

So... should I be concerned hitting the track running stock forks w/ an Ohlins shock? Is this maybe even an optimum set-up for now... or should I continue to shoot for an Ohlins cartridge kit at some point... Lets discuss! I'm not looking to make the podium here I'm just looking to get the most out of my bike going into intermediate (and hopefully the advanced group by 2020).

 

[ShawnG]

Definitely wouldn't hurt, The rear shock is the weak point on these suspensions. I have a dedicated track 4th gen and my rear shock upgrade was installing the stock 5th gen rear shock lol. It works good, Good enough for me at least. Im sure some guys will chime in and just say run what you got which is true in a way but its your money do what you want. Curious about the 5th gen forks though, i thought those things were great?

 

[2wheelmike]

Does anybody rebuild/revalve the stock shock? Most seem to replace but in past experience revalving/respringing has worked wonders for me. Is it the type of internals that are the problem with this approach? Thanks for your patience with the newb-

 

[Honey Badger]

The rear shock is definitely an upgrade pretty much everyone I know does.

I got cartridges for mine at the same time, and OMG, what a massive difference.

I'm sold on full suspension upgrades now....before I was always the "oh, I'm slow, I'm no where near the pointy end of the triangle, it's a silly investment." Now I believe that statement to be silly UNLESS you are really good at riding around little things that may affect your confidence.

 

[ddipaola]

Does anybody rebuild/revalve the stock shock? Most seem to replace but in past experience revalving/respringing has worked wonders for me. Is it the type of internals that are the problem with this approach? Thanks for your patience with the newb-

No personal experience but Andreani has a replacement big-piston re-valve kit you can install for the Gen5 that's "supposed" to give you better feedback and adjustability. They say combining those with a cartridge kit will give ya best experience... but I could sell you a napkin and tell you without a napkin you won't have the best experience until you've got a napkin to wipe away a sweat-drop haha.

So I don't know if this is really a necessary investment (especially considering like NO US supplier has them) but a respected suspension tuner around here offers them so they must do something... Might be best to get a hold of your local tuner and get a professional opinion...

 

[Kawi_Chris]

The rear spring is soft for our bike. More so than the front. You can get away with the front springs and internals. The front ride height needs to be changed, I run the front higher than stock. Forks lowered in the triple. I am running the stock swingarm pivot flipped. The rear sock length is a little longer than stock. If you keep the stock shock you can shim the clevis or just upgrade your spring.

This is all stock equipment until I can spring the cash for upgrades. Total for setup and work completed was only $450

 

[mattinrsm]

The most important thing is to get the right spring rates for your weight, and set your geometry correctly. The damping rates are secondary, but still important. I have a Gen 4 with a TTX rear and the stock front with the Race Tech gold valve kit, and I run at the fast end of advanced group. I've raced other bikes I've had with stock suspension too, so don't over think it. But spend the time to set up what you have. It makes a difference.

I see you are from Michigan. I'm planning to be at Grattan on Sunday if you are thinking about coming out and need some help.

Matt

 

[ddipaola]

The rear spring is soft for our bike. More so than the front. You can get away with the front springs and internals. The front ride height needs to be changed, I run the front higher than stock. Forks lowered in the triple. I am running the stock swingarm pivot flipped. The rear sock length is a little longer than stock. If you keep the stock shock you can shim the clevis or just upgrade your spring.

This is all stock equipment until I can spring the cash for upgrades. Total for setup and work completed was only $450

Can you explain the swingarm pivot to me? I'm trying to better see the exploded view of everything via Partzilla but I'm not understanding how that adjustability is done and what the affects are. I know there some detailed posts on here for geometry but they're not in laymen's terms for the most part :lol:.

 

[Kawi_Chris]

Stock is a +1 on swingarm pivot. Upside down is a -1. You can also get a 0 pivot from Kawasaki kit racing parts but with the stock pivot flipped (-1), It flattens out the swingarm and provides more grip.

 

[Neonmarine]

Stock is a +1 on swingarm pivot. Upside down is a -1. You can also get a 0 pivot from Kawasaki kit racing parts but with the stock pivot flipped (-1), It flattens out the swingarm and provides more grip.

It’s not as simple as just flipping and geting more grip. The swing arm angle still needs to be in the sweet spot for the right anti-squat characteristics. This means adding shock length/rear ride height.

Also, by making this change you change the weight balance when you are on the gas. To much weight on the rear you can unload the front mid corner and low side.

 

[bbsteinnewyork]

Stock is a +1 on swingarm pivot. Upside down is a -1. You can also get a 0 pivot from Kawasaki kit racing parts but with the stock pivot flipped (-1), It flattens out the swingarm and provides more grip.

When the angle is reduced, mechanical grip is reduced.

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[bbsteinnewyork]

It’s not as simple as just flipping and geting more grip. The swing arm angle still needs to be in the sweet spot for the right anti-squat characteristics. This means adding shock length.

It would seem to me that if this route was taken,, lower pivot and longer shock length ? How much? If the same swing arm angle is achieved then the additional grip would also be the result of a higher center of gravity. ??

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[Kawi_Chris]

If you read my original post you will see the words.... “shim the clevis” which adds rear ride height ?

Stock is a +1 on swingarm pivot. Upside down is a -1. You can also get a 0 pivot from Kawasaki kit racing parts but with the stock pivot flipped (-1), It flattens out the swingarm and provides more grip.

It’s not as simple as just flipping and geting more grip. The swing arm angle still needs to be in the sweet spot for the right anti-squat characteristics. This means adding shock length/rear ride height.

Also, by making this change you change the weight balance when you are on the gas. To much weight on the rear you can unload the front mid corner and low side.

 

[Neonmarine]

When the angle is reduced, mechanical grip is reduced.

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This is partially true. It’s a balance, you have to find the angle that works for you. Do you steer with the front or the rear? What tire is being used? Some tires and styles like to have a flatter swingarm angle and others need more.

It would seem to me that if this route was taken,, lower pivot and longer shock length ? How much? If the same swing arm angle is achieved then the additional grip would also be the result of a higher center of gravity. ??

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I would highly suggest you take it to a local suspension expert. Internet numbers are sooooo not the right place to start.

If you read my original post you will see the words.... “shim the clevis” which adds rear ride height ?

Sorry bossman, I was between classes at night school and must have missed that part.

 

[ddipaola]

The rear spring is soft for our bike. More so than the front. You can get away with the front springs and internals. The front ride height needs to be changed, I run the front higher than stock. Forks lowered in the triple. I am running the stock swingarm pivot flipped. The rear sock length is a little longer than stock. If you keep the stock shock you can shim the clevis or just upgrade your spring.

This is all stock equipment until I can spring the cash for upgrades. Total for setup and work completed was only $450

Do you know what the stock fork spring rate is for the Gen5's? I was poking around and it looked like it might be .95kg/mm? The Race Tech calc recommended a 1.0kg/mm rate for someone my weight (180 w/o gear). Looks like the Kawi race kit offers a 10.75N/mm (=1.1kg/mm). Would you agree that'd be a pretty solid set-up? Springs only? Springs and Valves? Would you see any issues running an Ohlins Shock with the OEM forks in terms of an adequate set-up? Thanks in advance haha.

 

[Honey Badger]

Do you know what the stock fork spring rate is for the Gen5's? I was poking around and it looked like it might be .95kg/mm? The Race Tech calc recommended a 1.0kg/mm rate for someone my weight (180 w/o gear). Looks like the Kawi race kit offers a 10.75N/mm (=1.1kg/mm). Would you agree that'd be a pretty solid set-up? Springs only? Springs and Valves? Would you see any issues running an Ohlins Shock with the OEM forks in terms of an adequate set-up? Thanks in advance haha.

I believe when we pulled my stock springs out they were 1.1 - WAY to stiff for me. I put in .95 which was still on the stiff side (for the pace I had slowed to). It's about right as my pace has started to pick up again (same rate in my cartridges).

As for what's best for you, that will depend a LOT. Joey P and Tyler O were running about the same laptimes on the same bike. Tyler's slightly heavier than Joey, but not by a huge amount. Joey ran .85 front springs and Tyler had 1.1 in there.

If you've got a relationship with a local suspension/track tuner, I'd talk to them. If you don't, start developing that relationship now so you can get the bike set up for YOU, not some numbers on a spreadsheet

 

[mattinrsm]

I believe when we pulled my stock springs out they were 1.1 - WAY to stiff for me. I put in .95 which was still on the stiff side (for the pace I had slowed to). It's about right as my pace has started to pick up again (same rate in my cartridges).

As for what's best for you, that will depend a LOT. Joey P and Tyler O were running about the same laptimes on the same bike. Tyler's slightly heavier than Joey, but not by a huge amount. Joey ran .85 front springs and Tyler had 1.1 in there.

If you've got a relationship with a local suspension/track tuner, I'd talk to them. If you don't, start developing that relationship now so you can get the bike set up for YOU, not some numbers on a spreadsheet

While I agree with the suggestion to talk to a good local tuner, I think a general spring rate choice can be made based on weight for an intermediate track day rider. The OP is on the steep end of the learning curve and needs a solid baseline to grow with. The race tech chart is helpful for determining this I think.

To the OP - an aftermarket rear shock and re-sprung stock forks will work just fine together. If you need a local suspension guy - talk to Joe at Witchkraft Racing - Witchkraft Racing: The Search for Speed. He's near you and top notch.

 

[mattinrsm]

oops - wrong link. Motorcycle Racing Suspension - Witchkraft Motorsports.

 

[evallarta1]

There are soooo many variables to get a good handling bike, that's why working with a reputable tuner is huge! You may get a "good" price from STG, but whos gonna help you tune it? Whos going to service it every season? Whos going to help you when things arent working like you need them to? I guarantee STG won't have a clue.

I cant tell you how many times we've received a customer who "got a deal" only to find out the shock was sprung wrong for them and now the bike handles worse then stock. Now they have to buy a new spring from us, AND pay for us to help them tune it. There goes your "savings"

What we do is we make sure the springs are right, and swap them free of charge if we due get it wrong. AND provide tuning trackside to get your bike dialed in properly along with other support. The point is your value going with a suspension shop is soooo much more than saving on a shock.

Plus most suspension tuners are constantly doing R&D to get their riders better data and setups. Case in point, Im sitting in the MotoAmerica paddock working with data while staring at Josh Hayes and Melissa Paris's rig. All this data that we learn at the pro level trickles down to you guys. But you dont get access to stuff like this when you buy from box stores.

 

[teror1sta]

Last Wednesday I was on track day. East Euro Champ was there to (Doksata):

I ride zx10r 04 (near to stock) best time - 01.10.025
Doksata with his racing bike track record - 01.01.**
Doksata with near to stock Suzuki K1 1000cc (stock suspension) - 01.02.**

Then I seed to me "Idiot don't upgrade the bike .... learn to ride ! "