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2018 ZX10R SE
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Discussion Starter #1
So here is my issue. I have the keyswitch eliminator on my bike. On a rare and random a
Occasion, I will stall the bike which is embarrassing enough as is. With any other bike, I can just pull in the clutch and hit the ignition and the bike will start. With my 2018 with the eliminator installed. I have to actually put the bike back into neutral or it won't turn over. This isn't something that happens often but the 3 times it has, the bike doesn't like going into neutral unless it's fully stopped and I have always at least started to roll and either let the clutch out too quick or not given It enough throttle etc(kinda the obvious culprits, usually only when j have the added weight of a passenger though) anyhow, what can I jump or otherwise bypass to make it not care what gear it is in as long as the clutch is pulled in?
 

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The only thing I can think of the clutch switch or kickstand switch not properly working. Are those two good?
 

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So here is my issue. I have the keyswitch eliminator on my bike. On a rare and random a
Occasion, I will stall the bike which is embarrassing enough as is. With any other bike, I can just pull in the clutch and hit the ignition and the bike will start. With my 2018 with the eliminator installed. I have to actually put the bike back into neutral or it won't turn over. This isn't something that happens often but the 3 times it has, the bike doesn't like going into neutral unless it's fully stopped and I have always at least started to roll and either let the clutch out too quick or not given It enough throttle etc(kinda the obvious culprits, usually only when j have the added weight of a passenger though) anyhow, what can I jump or otherwise bypass to make it not care what gear it is in as long as the clutch is pulled in?
What is this eliminator and why interested in it? Dang.
 

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ZX10R 2012
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Ai, so like @jd41 said there might be something wrong with the clutch switch. I have 2012 one and it has a clutch switch broken with that controller. There are some things that you need to consider.
1. The bike has several fuel maps for different conditions.
a. Warmup map
b. Clutch engaged
c. Clutch disengaged

To solve the issue like you have (except I don't have eliminator) I closed the contact for the clutch switch by a wire (or any metal thing, like a hairpin). This lead to the situation when one of the maps (clutch disengaged) was not working, because ECU thought the clutch is there and we're not moving anywhere. It made its way and bike didn't run full force as it should. So better to change it if it's broken indeed.

If the kickstand would be cheating on you, those wouldn't be an occasion and a random bump would kill the engine immediately. So that's not it apparently.
 

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I bought one of these when I was pretty much making my zx10 a track only bike last year to eliminate the kickstand switch.


He also has a clutch bypass too. If you don't use the clutch switch for a launch control or anything special for the bike you should be able to unplug it and with that kickstand eliminator I'd guess you'd eliminate some safety but I don't see why you're bike wouldn't start in gear anymore
 

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The Positive Neutral Finder won't let the bike go into neutral if the rear wheel is moving. It's awesome that way. The clutch safety switch or sidestand switch is not working properly which is why you can't start it in gear. The first one to check and bypass would be the sidestand switch.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The only thing I can think of the clutch switch or kickstand switch not properly working. Are those two good?
Yeah they are. If it's sitting with the kickstand down but in neutral it will start no issues. Actually I have no idea about the clutch switch. Is it on the clutch lever like the brake light switch is under the other lever? Only reason I ask is cause I have asv levers and for whatever reason they ruined my brake light switch on my first 2018 and 2 times on my current bike before bob the owner of asv figured out what the issue was and fixed it but that means it could very well have destroyed the clutch switch if it's the same. Otherwise I'm at a loss and it's bugging the shit out of me.
 

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Yeah they are. If it's sitting with the kickstand down but in neutral it will start no issues. Actually I have no idea about the clutch switch. Is it on the clutch lever like the brake light switch is under the other lever? Only reason I ask is cause I have asv levers and for whatever reason they ruined my brake light switch on my first 2018 and 2 times on my current bike before bob the owner of asv figured out what the issue was and fixed it but that means it could very well have destroyed the clutch switch if it's the same. Otherwise I'm at a loss and it's bugging the shit out of me.
Yes. Similar to the brake light switch but on the opposite side. The bike wont start in gear unless the lever is pressing down the clutch switch.

 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK so i got a reply from Eric wood, the CEO of woodcraft which is who makes my key switch eliminator and he says he has owned multiple ZX10R's. he said it is the one inconvenience of this particular bike. It is the neutral safety switch circuit and if i were to bypass or jump it then the bike would always think it was in neutral and would run very off since it would not properly switch maps when i changed gears, I have an idea to work around it but need to know where the wires are for this particular circuit if anyone can point me in the right direction. Basically i am going to install a micro roller arm switch under the clutch lever and TIG weld a tiny tab onto my ASV lever so that when i pull the clutch in the switch will trigger and trick the bike into thinking it is in neutral. when i let the clutch back out the switch will deactivate and the ecu will go back to thinking the bike is in the actual gear it is in. like was said by one of you, the bike will not shift to neutral while the back wheel is turning so short of the BS of having to do the waddle to the side of the road and come to a complete stop to pop it into neutral so i can start it again i think this is my only option. so anyone happen to know which wire or circuit i would need to short to make this setup work? Just for those of you who think my bike is asking to get stolen cause i have the key switch eliminator on my street bike, i have the Scorpio SRX 950 with ignition disable and RFID plus the R-Link cellular GPS tracking setup and two-way remote with kill on it as well as proximity sensor so yeah, bike isn't getting stolen let alone started without me wanting it to and even if stolen i get live tracking and a direct link to give the cops to track it if someone decides to pick it up and throw it in a van or truck. it has a battery backup that works for 3 days too in case the battery is unplugged and the ignition kill box is buried underneath the throttle bodies under the air box etc so the entire bike top end would need to be pulled apart to bypass my setup so i feel fairly safe with not having a key to start it .
 

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Discussion Starter #10
JD41, i will test the clutch switch right now and hope that is the issue but according to eric, the zx has the neutral safety switch and does this on all the zx bikes he has owned. I hope it is the clutch switch but after hearing from him i am kinda thinking i need to figure out which wires to hook a new switch to or to piggyback my clutch switch to so that it tricks the ecu into thinking clutch in means neutral as well.
 

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I just went out and tested my GEN4 and it did what I remembered. In 1st clutch out no start. In 1st clutch in starts. I have the same key eliminator. Everytime I have had the problem you describe it has been the clutch switch. Sometimes just cleaning it with a contact cleaner works.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I just went out and tested my GEN4 and it did what I remembered. In 1st clutch out no start. In 1st clutch in starts. I have the same key eliminator. Everytime I have had the problem you describe it has been the clutch switch. Sometimes just cleaning it with a contact cleaner works.
ok so i am gonna go check the switch right now, thank you very much Realpsi, hopefully that is my issue
 

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JD41, i will test the clutch switch right now and hope that is the issue but according to eric, the zx has the neutral safety switch and does this on all the zx bikes he has owned. I hope it is the clutch switch but after hearing from him i am kinda thinking i need to figure out which wires to hook a new switch to or to piggyback my clutch switch to so that it tricks the ecu into thinking clutch in means neutral as well.
Here's the contacts I hooked to make the ECU think the clutch is engaged
444082
it's from dad side. From mom side contacts are the same, so left and right ones (don't know what middle one is responsible for). Hope this helps.
 

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The circuit for starting uses the neutral switch and the clutch switch. If the bike is neutral, starting is fine. If the bike is gear and the clutch lever is not pulled, no start condition. The sidestand safety switch is also in the loop there for running. Obviously you already know this, just restating it. My previous reply about the sidestand switch was typed too quick. The sidestand switch is for the engine running, not for the starter circuit.

The clutch safety switch is pretty easy, straightforward, and not prone to failure often. What most people don't understand is they put fancy adjustable clutch hand brake levers on the bike so they can adjust them. There's a reason the clutch lever isn't adjustable from the factory. The tab on the lever is used to trigger the safety switch when it's pulled in. It basically has to be pulled all the way in against the grip so the tab will trigger the switch. With adjustable levers, if the setting is anything other than the maximum value, the clutch lever will pull to the grip, disengage the clutch pack enough to not spin the rear wheel very hard, but not allow the tab to trigger the safety switch for starting.

First thing to verify is that the switch is working properly on/off. That's easy to do with the switch itself. But it needs to be checked with the lever in play. Verify it gets triggered with the lever pulled on whatever your current setting is. I'm betting you don't have the ASV levers set far enough out and that is causing your starting issue. In that case, readjust your lever or shim the lever tab slightly so that it fully depresses the switch. You shouldn't have to create a fancy bypass circuit for it.
 

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again and again the same old story: the bitter end. Change out what works for something senseless that fails; reject reason and accountability for actions; Repeat and repeat with each new noob group every three years!
 

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again and again the same old story: the bitter end. Change out what works for something senseless that fails; reject reason and accountability for actions; Repeat and repeat with each new noob group every three years!
Question. When you buy a bike from the dealer, do you ride it they way they set it up? Or do you adjust the brake lever position for your fingers? What about the rear brake pedal, do you adjust that? Do you adjust the mirrors so you can see behind you? What about the freeplay in the throttle?

The engineers design for the masses, not specific riders. Every change on the bike is about making the bike more suitable for the rider. If you've adjusted any of the things above after you took delivery of it, you're doing the same thing the rest of us are, just to a much lower level. We're taking it to the next level.

I've changed out my brake and clutch levers because the shape of the aftermarket ones feel better on my fingers, provide more leverage and grip, and allow me to brake harder because of that. Riding with the factory levers sucks after you experience better ones. So it's not senseless or useless if you're trying to achieve a specific goal because of that. The lever didn't fail here and neither did the bike. It's just different and needs a couple other tweaks to be fully functional.
 

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again and again the same old story: the bitter end. Change out what works for something senseless that fails; reject reason and accountability for actions; Repeat and repeat with each new noob group every three years!
I can so tell you're a noob rider with that comment. Start out warming up with some figure 8's before yer ride and read Code's TOTR 300 times. Oh and dont forget to buy leather gear and remember to never EVER change your oil! I could go on but that'll get ya started! Lemme know if i can be of any further help.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
again and again the same old story: the bitter end. Change out what works for something senseless that fails; reject reason and accountability for actions; Repeat and repeat with each new noob group every three years!
Scout, while I appreciate your thoughts and input, I have been riding for going on 26 years. Far far far from a noob.. my old username was a member of this forum before you were. Mostly lurked but still facts are facts. If you like the generalized base bike as they sell it all the power to you. My bike has to fit me. I'm 6 foot 2, I'm mostly upper body length not legs and I'm fairly well built so weight gets put on different areas for me than for you. I like asv levers, I have been working directly with the owner of asv to solve this issue so that future owners of asv products won't have to deal with it. Since you seem to be soooo damn by the book, can I ask you why you even have a zx10r? It's a 200hp nearly 200mph bike on the worst of days. You don't need more than an r3 to do the speed limit and obey all the rules and conform to the expected norm. Me, I added nitrous, flashed the ecu, removed the everything I could. Tossed race rails on as a cheap insurance policy on top of my comprehensive coverage, I paid cash and bought the bike outright have every single mod with exception of the nitrous approved in writing from Kawasaki heavy industry corporate. I covered my ass and all my bases. I am far far and away from anything even remotely close to a noob and I am not closed minded. I have dumped over 40k into this bike and the associated gear etc for it. I love the damn thing and I made it 100% unique and mine. From special ordered hand made silicone hoses that match my seat covers that are covering and protecting my aftermarket saddlemans seats. I went to asv and had these levers made on the spot. Waited a couple hours for them to finish them for me. Paid not a single penny for them. You know why? Cause my bike looks so fucking sick that asv wanted thier levers on it and a couple stickers too and you know what I'm happy as hell with that. To each thier own but look if you can't contribute to the convo beyond bitching about something then please just don't say anything please. To those that helped. Thank you very much. It was the fucking clutch switch. I'm gonna jump it and put a rocker switch in line so I can retain my per gear fuel maps.
 

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Contact cleaner and some exercise of the switch corrects it most of the time. It is easily removed and cleaned. I would try cleaning it or replace it before I added another switch to fail.

At least you know the problem and symptoms of a failed clutch switch.
 
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