Sprocket change or OEM?

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vroomshankar

Discussion Starter · Jan 3, 2017

Was picking up a set of chain and sprockets for my Gen 5. Had a few queries on them so looking for some help:

1. Should I go for -1/+2 or -1/+1 or keep the sprocketing stock? I do find the bike takes its own sweet time to rev up till the powerband and this at times is a killjoy at the racetrack. Does a -1/+1 make sense or a +2 is the bare minimum to get any noticeable difference? What would be the impact on the top end with a +1 or a +2 at the rear?

2. Massively confused on whether to go for a 520 conversion or 525? Steel sprockets or Aluminium ones?

I am leaning towards Renthal for sprockets and DID for chain. My usage is a mix of weekend riding and trackdays.

Thank you

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SkyDork

· #2 · Jan 3, 2017

This is a completely subjective topic that no one can answer over the internet. It completely depends on what YOU like. Some people like -1/+1, others swear -1/+2, and others still like just +1 or +2 on the back. YOU have to try different combinations to see what YOU like in the riding conditions that YOU do and that make sense for YOU and YOUR bike.

Same goes with a 520 or 525 conversion. If you're that conflicted about it, stick with the 525 stock size. Aluminum on the rear if you don't mind changing sprockets more often. Steel if you want to put it on and basically forget about it.

Reactions: 1

ShawnG

· #3 · Jan 3, 2017

-1 +2 will feel like a complete different bike. Thats what i run and love it. cant keep the front down 1-3. chain size kinda depends on what youre using it for? street or drag bike just run a 525, track bike run 520. like sky dork said run steel if you want to put it on and forget about it.

belkins

· #4 · Jan 3, 2017

:+1: -1 in the front +2 in the rear.. i went 520 on the chain and aluminum on the rear sprocket.. i figure why not save all the weight you can. Just be prepared for that front sprocket if you do it yourself.. thing is a mother#$%@er to get off. :grin2:

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vroomshankar

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 3, 2017

Thanks guys. Read up on a lot of threads on the forum in the meantime on the subject.

Will read up a bit more and then decide between going either (stock/+1) or (-1/+1) considering I need to strike the right balance between acceleration and top end. Maybe I will just order a stock front, a -1 front and a +1 rear and swap the fronts if I dont like one particular combination. The +1 on the rear is sure go ahead.

Read up on the different threads and the conversion factors between the sprockets. This is why I love this forum!

Also checked out gearingcommander.com but not very convinced on the top end speeds being projected in the algorithms. I frankly believe the actual difference is better felt and calculated with actual riding.

Just wanted feedback from folks who have possibly tried both stock/+1 and -1/+1. Will make decision making a lot easier.

Have decided to stick to the 525 pitch and steel sprockets as I dont want to keep changing sprockets too often. Thinking of going with Vortex steel sprockets (unless any of you have had a bad experience with vortex). Will get to the 520 and all aluminium conversion if I start racing. Till then 525 FTW.

A buddy who runs a -1/+2 on his 08 R1 suggested that I prepare myself for a lower gas mileage (doesnt matter too much) and a 10-15% more tyre wear with a -1/+2.

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SkyDork

· #6 · Jan 3, 2017

vroomshankar said:
Thanks guys. Read up on a lot of threads on the forum in the meantime on the subject.

Will read up a bit more and then decide between going either (stock/+1) or (-1/+1) considering I need to strike the right balance between acceleration and top end. Maybe I will just order a stock front, a -1 front and a +1 rear and swap the fronts if I dont like one particular combination. The +1 on the rear is sure go ahead.

Read up on the different threads and the conversion factors between the sprockets. This is why I love this forum!

Also checked out gearingcommander.com but not very convinced on the top end speeds being projected in the algorithms. I frankly believe the actual difference is better felt and calculated with actual riding.

Just wanted feedback from folks who have possibly tried both stock/+1 and -1/+1. Will make decision making a lot easier.

Have decided to stick to the 525 pitch and steel sprockets as I dont want to keep changing sprockets too often. Thinking of going with Vortex steel sprockets (unless any of you have had a bad experience with vortex). Will get to the 520 and all aluminium conversion if I start racing. Till then 525 FTW.

A buddy who runs a -1/+2 on his 08 R1 suggested that I prepare myself for a lower gas mileage (doesnt matter too much) and a 10-15% more tyre wear with a -1/+2.

Then there are guys like me who prefer +2 rear only so the change is not too aggressive and it shortens the wheelbase to help with turn-in slightly. Plus the rear sprocket is much easier to change. This is essentially the same as going -1F, but with the advantages I just mention.

Gearingcommander.com speeds are theoretical based on the internal/external gearing. It's easy to calculate that stuff and pretty accurate*. But it doesn't take into account aerodynamic drag and torque - which means that those speed calculations are only accurate IF (and only if) the motor has enough power to get you to the RPM stated in the utility. I wouldn't focus at the top speeds listed, but rather the drop in MPH and rise in RPM based on difference between gearing combinations.

Reactions: 1

vroomshankar

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 3, 2017

SkyDork said:
Then there are guys like me who prefer +2 rear only so the change is not too aggressive and it shortens the wheelbase to help with turn-in slightly. Plus the rear sprocket is much easier to change. This is essentially the same as going -1F, but with the advantages I just mention.

You are right about the top speeds being academic and its the riding conditions at that very moment which define where you will max out at.

Just curious about two things since you mentioned you run a +2R. How is the difference in acceleration vs stock? Brutal enough to want to keep the front itchy to pop in the initial gears all the time?

Any idea how much top end you have lost with the +2 realistically?

mpp12

· #8 · Jan 3, 2017

I would do -1 on this bike... or +2 on the back... no more.

ShawnG

· #9 · Jan 3, 2017

-1 +2 still indicated 186mph on my bike and gets there in no time.. when i had -1f it would still max out the cluster with most of 6th gear to go if i remember correctly.

Reactions: 2

SkyDork

· #10 · Jan 3, 2017

vroomshankar said:
You are right about the top speeds being academic and its the riding conditions at that very moment which define where you will max out at.

Just curious about two things since you mentioned you run a +2R. How is the difference in acceleration vs stock? Brutal enough to want to keep the front itchy to pop in the initial gears all the time?

Any idea how much top end you have lost with the +2 realistically?

Any change to the gearing you make will be noticeable. +2R for me makes it just about right. Throttle response is improved, acceleration is more aggressive, and it wheelies easier for sure. Is it overly aggressive? I wouldn't say so. It's not like you're going to be fighting the front to stay down all the time. But it will come up easier.

Top speed is irrelevant to me. I'm too fat to tuck in all the way so I can't get it to the top speed anyway. I saw 182mph indicated on the cluster with that gearing and it was about out of steam. Given the instrumentation error, I'd say I was about 175mph or so actual. The gearing probably dropped top speed about 5mph or so from stock.

Reactions: 1

Duhastme

· #11 · Jan 3, 2017

ShawnG said:
-1 +2 still indicated 186mph on my bike and gets there in no time.. when i had -1f it would still max out the cluster with most of 6th gear to go if i remember correctly.

Sorry to go off topic OP

So I just ran into this the other day. So if the ECU is flashed and the top speed limiter is disabled, gearingcommander.com says 6th gear at 13k rpm you will be doing 187 which is what my speedo read. Although if you look at there gearing top speed table with 49 different combinations it states a top speed of 168 mph. I believe I must be missing or not understanding the graph correctly. If anyone can chime in I would appreciate it.

SkyDork

· #12 · Jan 3, 2017

Duhastme said:
Sorry to go off topic OP

So I just ran into this the other day. So if the ECU is flashed and the top speed limiter is disabled, gearingcommander.com says 6th gear at 13k rpm you will be doing 187 which is what my speedo read. Although if you look at there gearing top speed table with 49 different combinations it states a top speed of 168 mph. I believe I must be missing or not understanding the graph correctly. If anyone can chime in I would appreciate it.

The RPM shown on gearingcommander uses the peak torque value of 13,000RPM. If you can actually get it to the redline (which is a higher probability than stock), the speed will increase above what's shown. It's much easier to get the motor to redline in 6th gear on a bike geared down versus stock. So at 14,000rpm with -1F/+2R the top speed is 175mph. Given that the tires will grow slightly and change the gearing at that speed and the error in the speedometer, it's very likely the indicated speed would be higher than that although the bike isn't actually going that fast.

FYI- stock gearing at 14,000rpm is 195mph unrestricted.

Duhastme

· #13 · Jan 3, 2017

SkyDork said:
The RPM shown on gearingcommander uses the peak torque value of 13,000RPM. If you can actually get it to the redline (which is a higher probability than stock), the speed will increase above what's shown. It's much easier to get the motor to redline in 6th gear on a bike geared down versus stock. So at 14,000rpm with -1F/+2R the top speed is 175mph. Given that the tires will grow slightly and change the gearing at that speed and the error in the speedometer, it's very likely the indicated speed would be higher than that although the bike isn't actually going that fast.

FYI- stock gearing at 14,000rpm is 195mph unrestricted.

Sorry forget to mention that I am -1 +2 same as the gentleman that I quoted which you seem to have understood. So basically (gotta keep it simple for me :wink2

that the difference in tire change and error in the speedo, that my mph readout is correct? Just seemed like it gets up there so quickly that it could not be right.

Now when i go to the website and increase the stock rpm from 13k to 14k it shows me that the top speed is 202. What am I missing?

SkyDork

· #14 · Jan 3, 2017 (Edited)

Duhastme said:
Sorry forget to mention that I am -1 +2 same as the gentleman that I quoted which you seem to have understood. So basically (gotta keep it simple for me :wink2 that the difference in tire change and error in the speedo, that my mph readout is correct? Just seemed like it gets up there so quickly that it could not be right.

Now when i go to the website and increase the stock rpm from 13k to 14k it shows me that the top speed is 202. What am I missing?

No, I think your speedo is reading high. Same as the other guy. Given that the speedo is optimistic is part of the reason you're seeing such a high reading. But both of you are saying that the speedo is reading 187ish and the website is showing 181mph for that combo. So you're right in the same ballpark. The speedo error and some tire differences/changes are accounting for the other differences.

Edit: It would help if I used Gen 4 values in there and not my Gen 5. :wink:

Duhastme

· #15 · Jan 3, 2017

SkyDork said:
No, I think your speedo is reading high. Same as the other guy. Given that the speedo is optimistic is part of the reason you're seeing such a high reading. But both of you are saying that the speedo is reading 187ish and the website is showing 181mph for that combo. So you're right in the same ballpark. The speedo error and some tire differences/changes are accounting for the other differences.

Edit: It would help if I used Gen 4 values in there and not my Gen 5. :wink:

I see now says the blind man! thanks for the info, knowledge is power they say :notworthy:

buswedg

· #16 · Jan 4, 2017

vroomshankar said:
Was picking up a set of chain and sprockets for my Gen 5. Had a few queries on them so looking for some help:

1. Should I go for -1/+2 or -1/+1 or keep the sprocketing stock? I do find the bike takes its own sweet time to rev up till the powerband and this at times is a killjoy at the racetrack. Does a -1/+1 make sense or a +2 is the bare minimum to get any noticeable difference? What would be the impact on the top end with a +1 or a +2 at the rear?

2. Massively confused on whether to go for a 520 conversion or 525? Steel sprockets or Aluminium ones?

I am leaning towards Renthal for sprockets and DID for chain. My usage is a mix of weekend riding and trackdays.

Thank you

I just went down one tooth on the front as I found the stock gearing to be stupid tall... particularly for the road. Had to do the same on an RSV4 I just came off, but have never felt the urge to mess with the gearing on the older generation litre bikes.

I wouldn't say it completely transformed the bike, but it now has a little more pump in 1st and 2nd. I'm not sure what type of roads you are riding, but I do feel that I would want to avoid losing any more top end on my bike. Don't care what the theoretical top speeds are pre/post dropping one tooth on the front... I can just feel a bit more of a hole once speeds start getting around the low 200's... which is perfect for where/how I ride at the moment.

Didn't feel the need to go 520. I mean, its not like I'm chasing tens of seconds.

Reactions: 1

vroomshankar

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jan 4, 2017

buswedg said:
I just went down one tooth on the front as I found the stock gearing to be stupid tall... particularly for the road. Had to do the same on an RSV4 I just came off, but have never felt the urge to mess with the gearing on the older generation litre bikes.

I wouldn't say it completely transformed the bike, but it now has a little more pump in 1st and 2nd. I'm not sure what type of roads you are riding, but I do feel that I would want to avoid losing any more top end on my bike. Don't care what the theoretical top speeds are pre/post dropping one tooth on the front... I can just feel a bit more of a hole once speeds start getting around the low 200's... which is perfect for where/how I ride at the moment.

Didn't feel the need to go 520. I mean, its not like I'm chasing tens of seconds.

Thanks. My riding is 50% highway riding on weekends and 50% trackdays. I do not take the bike out in the town unless I am going to the service center.

For my street riding I dont want to lose too much top end. I need the top end to still be upwards of 185 mph. For my track days I need better drive out of corners which the stock gearing is horrible at. By the time I come into the powerband currently I have already lost precious seconds in the lap.

I am not considering a -1/+2 as it will be an overkill for my needs.

Presently evaluating the +2R (thanks Skydork for the feedback) vs the -1F vs the -1/+1. Using gearingcommander for a comparitive analysis of the three combinations.

buswedg

· #18 · Jan 4, 2017

buswedg said:
I just went down one tooth on the front as I found the stock gearing to be stupid tall... particularly for the road. Had to do the same on an RSV4 I just came off, but have never felt the urge to mess with the gearing on the older generation litre bikes.

I wouldn't say it completely transformed the bike, but it now has a little more pump in 1st and 2nd. I'm not sure what type of roads you are riding, but I do feel that I would want to avoid losing any more top end on my bike. Don't care what the theoretical top speeds are pre/post dropping one tooth on the front... I can just feel a bit more of a hole once speeds start getting around the low 200's... which is perfect for where/how I ride at the moment.

Didn't feel the need to go 520. I mean, its not like I'm chasing tens of seconds.

oops, should mention that I meant 200-kmph. But you probably could have guessed that.

vroomshankar

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jan 4, 2017 (Edited)

Thanks everyone for the inputs and suggestions.

Skydork, thanks for your feedback. Have decided to go for the +2R for now. Incase I still feel the need for it will add a -1 later for the trackday use. For now going for the Vortex Steel sprockets (17/41) and EK 3D chain (120 links option) all in 525 pitch.

As per gearingcommander, a +2R vs stock setup will still keep the top end at 299.8 kmph which is basically no love lost for me since my bike is still restricted to the 299 top speed. Like someone suggested on another thread, a 2+ on the rear means a bump up in the rpm by about 500 rpms which shouldnt be too much of a hit on the gas mileage either. Seems like a win-win.

cwrzx

· #20 · Jan 4, 2017

I use gearingcommander to compare previous bikes I've had versus what I have now. My first sportbike was a 2008 cbr1000rr which was +3. I compared it to my gen4 and determined +2 was about the same and loved that gearing. Gen5 gears 2-6 have been changed and are more aggressive than Gen4 gearing. For example Gen5 stock gearing 3rd gear is equal to Gen4 3rd gear -1+2. I like the stock gearing but will try +1 just because I have it hanging on the wall. My advise is to use gearingcommander to compare what you had before versus what you have now.

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