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Discussion Starter #1
I'm wondering if there is a way to set the traction control separate from the wheelie control on a 2019 10R. I am nearly certain there is no way to separate it on the stock 10R ECU. I'm wondering though, does the KRT race kit ECU separate these functions out?

Bottom line is I'm having issues with wheelies at the race track and nothing I've done suspension wise has eliminated the problem. I've resorted to dropping $1000 on an Öhlins rear shock, only to have it make little to no difference. I added a 4mm shim to the shock shackle and already had the Öhlins set 2mm longer than stock. I've also dropped the front 2mm. Alas, wheelies everywhere.

I'd say that's just the way it is with a 200RWHP bike, but other guys out there that have the same drive out of the corners and up the straights do not pull 3ft wheelies in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear!

I'm getting to my wits end here!

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I'm running KTRIC in mode 3 and the only wheelies I get are about 6" off the ground. All the way through second and 3rd gear, but nothing scary.

For my setup, I have an Ohlins shock with about +5mm length, Lowered the fork tubes in the triples to flush, and dropped 1 tooth in front to extend the chain as long as I could go.

What gearing are you running? At -1/+2 I couldn't keep the front on the ground.

But to answer your question, I do not believe they are configurable separately.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
At the small track (Blackhawk Farms Raceway) I'm running -1/+2. At the big track (Road America) I ran a +0/+2.

I'm running TC @ 1. It kicks in a lot but it seems to let the front come up too much, too often.

My front fork tubes stick up past the upper triple about 4mm at least. The rear shock is about 6mm longer than stock.

I'm definitely getting to the point that it's hard to keep the rear down on the brakes.

Rear off the ground going into a turn, front coming out. I gotta say it has to be amusing to watch.

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I have similar rear lift issues.
Id suggest TC-2 or TC-3 and see how it feels. Or lose some gearing. If you watched my video, at -1/+0 I hit 120 ish in 2nd gear near the rev limiter and can still pull 155 in 4th.

I am also running a 200/55 tire. With that tire and the 200/60 I felt like I was riding over the top of the front tire. Raising the front helped a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'll try the TC higher but it already feels like the TC is kicking in too much. Though, it doesnt kick in to stop the wheelies.

I'd prefer not to be cutting power to keep the front down. The more power I can apply AND keep the front down, the more I can hammer the throttle. Unfortunately I dont seem to be making any headway there. Separate wheelie control would allow the bike to cut some power to keep the front down but be a little less intrusive at other times. Oddly, I've broken traction in the rear plenty, mid turn and on exit. Other times, like when the bike is nearly straight up and down, the TC seems to big getting all up in my business.

When I was running the stock shock, and trying to eliminate this exact same problem (that and horrendous tire wear) the only advice I could get anywhere was "you need an aftermarket shock". Now I have an aftermarket shock and I can't seem to get much help.

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You need less gearing and more wheelbase with the stock geometry. Use a 16/39 on a stock length chain and it will do both. You'll have to use 1st in the slow corners with this setup but it's not gonna lift the nose that much.

With the KIT ECU they do separate the TC and the WC, however you must still use them as the stock system does: one is tied to the other. But with the benefit of allowing over 50 separate wheelie control algorithms (if i'm not mistaken). So you can set your personal favorite setting in the WC channel for all 5 levels of TC and never have to wonder. Or do 5 different levels etc...

Adding a good shock is helpful, but it's not the one-all-cure-all for this. Geometry and anti-squat numbers play a larger role then just swapping parts or adding ride height. And then there's the pure nature of the bike: it has a peaky power delivery and can "hit" just when the chassis is lightest on the front, therefore lifting the wheel. It's something you have spend a lot of time working on if it's slowing you down, otherwise ride it out and use the rear brake. Chassis setup is a massive compromise so you may never get the right setup...
 

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How much sag are you running in the rear? I've had a similar issue in the past with too much sag and/or too soft of a spring.

Lengthening the wheel base is a good idea too, as others have suggested. What tires and sizes are you running?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
How much sag are you running in the rear? I've had a similar issue in the past with too much sag and/or too soft of a spring.



Lengthening the wheel base is a good idea too, as others have suggested. What tires and sizes are you running?
IIRC I'm running 30mm of rear sag. 100nm spring. I have a 105 list bought I'm going try.

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Discussion Starter #10
You need less gearing and more wheelbase with the stock geometry. Use a 16/39 on a stock length chain and it will do both. You'll have to use 1st in the slow corners with this setup but it's not gonna lift the nose that much.

With the KIT ECU they do separate the TC and the WC, however you must still use them as the stock system does: one is tied to the other. But with the benefit of allowing over 50 separate wheelie control algorithms (if i'm not mistaken). So you can set your personal favorite setting in the WC channel for all 5 levels of TC and never have to wonder. Or do 5 different levels etc...

Adding a good shock is helpful, but it's not the one-all-cure-all for this. Geometry and anti-squat numbers play a larger role then just swapping parts or adding ride height. And then there's the pure nature of the bike: it has a peaky power delivery and can "hit" just when the chassis is lightest on the front, therefore lifting the wheel. It's something you have spend a lot of time working on if it's slowing you down, otherwise ride it out and use the rear brake. Chassis setup is a massive compromise so you may never get the right setup...
The wheel base is longer than stock. I can't tell you how many extra links I have but the adjusters are 3 lines from the end if that makes sense.

What I was trying mostly too accomplish with the 4mm shim and 2mm longer shock was to increase the swing arm angle and therefore increase anti-squat. Is there another way to increase anti-squat on a 2019? I know I read something about swing arm pivots but I thought that was for earlier models.

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Formerly CLCRACINGAaron
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So increasing the swingarm angle will help most streetbikes gain good anti-squat characteristics, but it's not the only way. Since anti-squat has to do with the swingarm angle's relationship to the chain, the front sprocket diameter also plays a role. Also, there is a negative side affect to having an aggressive s/a angle: edge grip goes away past a certain point.

Swingarm pivots "can" be useful here, but really they aren't used for the primary purpose of anti-squat. The 2016 had a 1mm offset pivot insert (can be reversed) but Kawasaki changed this in 2017/18 for a 0mm pivot. I don't know what the 2019 has standard.

The last thing I'd say is that you are on a very powerful superbike. Wheelies will NEVER go away and you need to learn to work with them as much as possible. Road America has a cresting front straight and I know MotoA stock 1000 riders (on the ZX10) basically bury the rear brake lever from the exit of the last turn till they are past the start/finish. These guys are over 20 seconds faster then us normal folks (with much of same equipment) at that track.

Personally, I don't want my electronics to kick on. They aren't at the level to help me go faster and might cause me to develop bad habits. I view them as safety nets and are there to "fill in the blanks" when I get it wrong.
 

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I think 30mm of rear sag is probably too soft. I run 25mm. Run the heaviest spring that you can that still gets you 25mm. While this doesn’t seem like a big change, my experience has been that it is. It’s fast and free to crank in some preload. Try that first and see if it helps. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the replies.

The biggest reason I'm trying to solve this is that I dont see other guys riding wheelies everywhere like I am. The situation is better than when I 1st swung a leg over the bike, and so I want to get as much improvement as possible so I can get as much drive as possible out of corners. Whether it is electronics or my right hand/rear brake keeping the front down, it is slower than not having to apply brake or use less throttle.

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