[Balogiannis]

It's been a long time since my last post in here but things changed again for me and I can an be active member again.

This time I went to the dyno with a ZX10R 08 with pistons-ported head-cams-full exhaust etc. Very strong bike. The owner said he wanted the most out of his bike for street racing but also somewhat safe ( don't melt it on the dyno safe :badteeth

With that said I recommened that the bike should be tuned "each cylinder individually" and not by the average,he agreed so here it is. I did several pulls without touching anything on the bike,just recorded the AFR first "normally" with the O2 sensor in the midpipe then each cylinder separately.

I'm going to post the AFRatios only as the onwer didn't want me to post any numbers anywhere. :2bitchslap:

Here are all the cylinders together,as you can see there is large variation that in somepoints goes up to 1.3-1.4 AFR. You will also notice that cylinders 1-4 and 2-3 are somewhat similar but not close,so tuning them in pairs (like with a KIT ECU) is somewhat better but still not perfect.

I've also posted the average AFR for refference,the bike was not completely off because it was tuned on the street,the dip at the last rpms before the limiter is because ram air is working in real conditions providing more air but not on the dyno.
This is also some sort of proof the Kawasaki has the best ram air in the market,never seen anything like this on other bikes.

 

[Balogiannis]

So here is the biggest issue and a possible engine failure. Cylinder #2 is 0.6 above the average AFR and 1.4 above Cyl #4 which is why the average is appearing rich at 13000 rpms.

Now,if I was tuning by the average and I wanted an AFR of 13.2-13.4 this means I would raise the AFR at #2 cylinder near 14/1 which is the hot zone,risking a potential damage.

This also is a mythbuster to those claiming that the inner cylinder are richer than the outer ones from the bactory. Bollocks :badteeth:

 

[Balogiannis]

Here are the cylinders in pairs. This bike is using 4 short stacks and the valves we all measured 1 day before the dyno,all within 0.01 of each other.

The only thing that wasn't done was flow matching the injectors,I considered it to be an unnecessary cost at this point

 

[Balogiannis]

An here is the average AFR after the 1st correction I made to all cylinders,I'm posting the torque figure just to show that there is indeed gains to be had when doing this,apart from engine reliability which is also very important.

A little more was gained after further tuning the fueling maps, the total difference was +4hp for this bike.It may not sound much but it is a measureble gain. Win win for everyone.

Engine is more powerfull and reliable
Owner is more happy with the bike
Tuner is somewhat richer because this obviously costs way more than a "simple" tuning ( + the titanium bungs that had to be welded which was 40 € each)

:hello:

 

[tdh]

Interesting. I always wondered how you can tune each individual cylinder. Sounds like you have 5 different o2 bungs in your header?

 

[Balogiannis]

Interesting. I always wondered how you can tune each individual cylinder. Sounds like you have 5 different o2 bungs in your header?

It's not my bike,but yes. 4 bungs on each header and one on the midpipe

 

[tdh]

Interesting that they are so close to the exhaust port. I would have thought they would be farther down the pipes but maybe the closer the better?

 

[Capncalyx]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::badteeth:

 

[Balogiannis]

Interesting that they are so close to the exhaust port. I would have thought they would be farther down the pipes but maybe the closer the better?

It doens't really matter if you measuring AFR. But if you also want to measure EGT using the same bung then the closer to port the better,so if you don't want to do 8 holes in your exhaust you can do this instead. :wink2:

 

[SpazOnaZX]

Thanks for sharing man... it's neat stuff!

If you're going to get that deep into individual cylinder AFR tuning, have you considered using backpressure sensors as well? Wideband lambda sensors have rising error factors based on pressure, and exhaust systems vary pretty wildly with their back-pressure based on design and RPM. It's probably not a huge deal on NA stuff, but it can be a REAL eye opener on turbo stuff when the pressure ratios start to get high.

 

[Capncalyx]

I must be getting older....i still like and need T&A but conversations like this really fill the gap during down times! :badteeth:

 

[realpsi]

Awesome info.

 

[SpazOnaZX]

Interesting that they are so close to the exhaust port. I would have thought they would be farther down the pipes but maybe the closer the better?

The closer to the port, the less likely you'll have reversion pulses from other cylinders getting back up there and giving you erroneous readings. But, closer to the port you are exposing the sensor to more heat and shock, which may shorten its lifespan. Pick your poison.

I've heard it mentioned that big overlap cams in certain situations can cause false lean readings as well due to scavenging events, which is a pretty interesting theory. EGT's are great in tandem with the lambda sensor.... they can tell you quite accurately what your combustion/power looks like.

 

[Newf]

Have been planning to do this all year, but now that i've switched to MWR wsbk filter i think i will be getting a couple O2 bungs welded on atleast Cylinder 3 & 4 so i can tune it a little better using the race ecu software. Just need to see what cylinders are the easiest to get at as i can only map cylinder 1&4 together and 2&3, so don't think there's a need to put 4 holes in the exhaust.

I have 2 lambda sensors i can link into my datalogger to get some good ontrack info.

 

[GreenOne]

This is really great info :thumbsup:

One might think the "stock" fueling have some compensation on 1-4 and 2-3 for the stock short and long stacks, and running all short may throw this somewhat off and contribute to a difference between the pairs, but I`m just thinking out loud.
Have you done similar individual measurements with stock stacks setup?

 

[mpp12]

nice info...

 

[ZX10RArcher]

...

 

[michael4012]

Im glad your back :clap:

 

[Balogiannis]

Have been planning to do this all year, but now that i've switched to MWR wsbk filter i think i will be getting a couple O2 bungs welded on atleast Cylinder 3 & 4 so i can tune it a little better using the race ecu software. Just need to see what cylinders are the easiest to get at as i can only map cylinder 1&4 together and 2&3, so don't think there's a need to put 4 holes in the exhaust.

I have 2 lambda sensors i can link into my datalogger to get some good ontrack info.

Actually all race ECUs can be tuned just like the stock ones,not with the Kawasaki Fi tool,but with Woolich software it can be tuned just like a stock ECU.

 

[Victors]

I'd be interested to know what the air fuel is for each cylinder on a stock or near stock setup between a few bikes to get an idea if they are end up being similar from the factory. Like if cylinder number 2 is lean and cylinder 4 is rich compared to the others etc