Kawasaki ZX-10R Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
After removing the heat plates from the pads I'm getting too much front end dive, which I'm able to control through the adjuster on the brake lever, but the rear is coming up so quick that is makes the rear want to endo or feel like it is going to come around on me. Previous to removing the heat plates I was fine...I've done some research and it appears that my high speed rebound dampening is out of sorts. Is there anything I can use as a band-aid rather than buying a new shock or revalve? My stock rebound is 1.25 turns out so my rebound is already highly dampened.
I can't add more preload up front (32mm now) to combat the front end dive and I can't add compression up front or the bike will get harsh. It sucks when you lose all your confidence in late braking and/or using emergency braking practices.
 

·
I really need to get out of the house
Joined
·
11,176 Posts
I experienced the same thing.
The only thing I ever came up with is setting the brake lever adjuster to #2 and putting as much weight possible towards the back when braking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The bike handles slow so I raised my rear 3mm to get the handling to be like the 636, I'm sure putting more weight up front didn't help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
It was fine 300mi ago with the raised rear. I did also tighten the steering stem bearings...that might also be contributing to this phenomenon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I put my lever back to #4 and this seems to be helping a lot. A damper should keep things in line better and I will be asking the fat man in red for one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
BN



Am i reading your above post correctly in that you've added an additional 3mm to the already OEM 3mm shim/washer at the upper shock mount??

BD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
I think you already know this but just incase ya don't that change in and of itself has created some of what your experiencing even though the only difference is the removal of the pad disc. If your satisfied with the addition of the xtra 3mm shim at the rear then i might suggest extending the wheelbase for stability and to help keep the tire in contact.

BD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
You could also add a little preload in the forks. It may be that the springs are too soft for your weight as well, putting them too far in to the stroke of the fork and when you get on the brakes, it can't hold itself up. Generally, dive is tuned with compression, but if its too harsh for you, you can add preload. Most people that are racing these bikes are doing everything they can to lower the rear of the bike. Surprising to hear you say it turns in slow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I came off of Hondas and 600s so yes, the 10 turns like a tank compared to even an RC51 (02). I tune all my bike to handle like R6s and putting the weight up front normally gets things the way I want.
I forgot to mention that the route cause of this issue has been addressed. It was 60 degrees yesterday so I got to ride the bike...not as much dive and the rear slightly wanted to come around, but maybe 15% as bad as before. The only change I've made besides the brake lever was TIGHTENING the steering head bearings. I'm sure they could have caused this problem to appear.

In my original thread I spoke of not changing the preload because I'm already quite conservative and not changing the compression. A few suspension guys I've spoken to said all too many times people use compression to battle brake dive, but truly that is a symptom of preload and using compression to tune that is like adding a band-aid.
I have some things I might try (1 more click of compression out front, maybe add 2mm more preload, get the rear to squat more so it doesn't extend as quickly) That is all for next year. I got the bike set up "good enough" to learn its characteristics and will refine it next year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
Actually it's not really an issue of preload, but more often than not the incorrect springs. Compression is a band aid for controlling brake dive. But it also happens to work. Based on the issues you are describing, you have too much weight bias towards the front of the bike. 3mm additional at the shock equates to nearly .75 inch at the wheel. Significant ride height adjustment. It also takes away any dynamic trail, so the bike will try to tuck on you mid corner when you start to actually carry speed. Dude, I race at the national level on one of these. I might be able to help you if you want it. Otherwise, have fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
And oh yeah, 32mm of sag is probably a bit on the soft side for stock length forks. You could stand to add some preload and get it up to 28-30mm. And depending on how much preload it takes to get there will determine if you need heavier springs in the front.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,060 Posts
BNninja said:
I came off of Hondas and 600s so yes, the 10 turns like a tank compared to even an RC51 (02). I tune all my bike to handle like R6s and putting the weight up front normally gets things the way I want.
A couple other things to consider to get your turn-in the way you like:

Are you still on the 190 rear tire? Switching to a 180 may help turn-in and allow you to lower the rear of the bike back down a bit. This would probably reduce the tendency to have the rear come around on the brakes.

Also, consider the tire you are running. If you like a quick steering bike like I do, and from your posts it seems you do, you might want to try the Dunlop GPs if you aren't already running them. If you are still on the stock 218s, you will notice a substantial difference in turn-in. And even if you've ditched the 218s, the GPs still handle a bit quicker than others.

Good luck getting it the way you like.

CC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Thanks guys, I'm a lightweight at 155 w/o gear; so the springs should be good for my uses. I was told the zx10 needs to be on the softer side to stay within its stroke. I guess I should do the math 1/4-1/3 of the stoke used by rider sag of 4.7" or 119.38 mm
this tells me I should have 29-39mm of sag and me being at 32mm puts me in the correct range.
noted: When riding harder settings should be at their hardest "ohlins manual"
The rear is 5.3" = 134.619mm. So theoretical correct preload is 33-45mm for the rear using the above scale.

I have had the front try to tuck on me a few times when pushing it, but I thought it was the newer tires (unused portion of the edge). I'm going to try a 30/30 setup and see what I get with that. Or do you recommend me going to a 30f/33r? older shocks had 5.1" of travel and you could get away with stiffer settings to quicken the steering.
Sport Rider also did an article where they said 1-1 1/4" preload for rider sag on the rear and 1 1/4-1 1/2" for front sag.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
Ideal sag numbers on the front on stock length, stock valved forks are going to be in the 25-30 range. These forks have a very harsh "bottoming cone" which is essentially a hydraulic lock that prevents the fork from bottoming. So while the measured usuable travel may appear to be 120mm, it really isn't. The forks will hydraulically lock with about 6mm showing. Next up is the rear. Correct spring rate is critical. The stock spring is pretty stiff, and at 155 may be too stiff. Measure the free length of the spring, and set preload at about 10mm shorter than full free length. This should give you rider sag of about 25mm. If more the spring is too soft, if less, the spring is too stiff. By running the sag you are using, you need the ride height that you have added to make the bike balanced. Essentially you are compensating for too little preload with ride height. It is keeping the bike in the "sweet spot" of handling because it is sitting too low in the stroke of the spring. If it were my bike, I would take all of the additional ride height out (including the 3mm spacer above the shock) and get the spring correct on the shock before doing anything else. You may indeed have the right springs in the fork, but I have a feeling the stock spring will need to be changed to really make the bike handle well for you. Tires are definitely something else that needs to be addressed. What tires are you using? This has a dramatic influence on the handling of these bikes because of the sensitivity to size changes. The Dunlop 208gpa's for example are much taller in the rear than the 218s and if you are using the 190, it will raise the ride height significantly without touching anything at the shock. I am running a Superstock configuration that required shortening the shock due to the 195 Dunlop slick being 13mm larger in diameter than the previous slick that Dunlop produced. These bikes definitely have a sweet spot that they work well in, and it is really small. Unlike Suzukis or even the 636, they are extremely sensitive to small changes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
BN

try the 30/30 and see if ya like it (or if the bike likes it) but either way 25mmR is not enough for street or track and getting the bike balanced is key to feelin warm & fuzzy when riding.

BD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Top Shelf said:
By running the sag you are using, you need the ride height that you have added to make the bike balanced. Essentially you are compensating for too little preload with ride height. It is keeping the bike in the "sweet spot" of handling because it is sitting too low in the stroke of the spring.
I'm not following what you say here...if I have too little preload the front sags and handles quicker...the added ride height also adds weight to the front making it handle quicker. What you said above doesn't relate or am I misunderstood?
Or were you saying, I have too much preload in the rear and am using the shim to compensate for the rear being out of range(set low)? That would make sense because rear preload is often used to quicken steering. or are you saying the whole bike is too low screwing up the center of gravity and thus affecting the roll axis?

I know plenty of guys who have raised their forks 5mm or shimmed the rear and are racing the 10r. raising the rear 3mm = raising the forks in the tubes 4.5mm...so I'm still conservative from what this bike can handle am I not? Kawasaki designed this bike to be front end biased for a reason more than normal street riding, I would like to think.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top