I am still trying to get the rear of the bike sorted. I was wondering if anyone had found some good numbers for the bike. I am on a TTX rear, also having major issues setting sag ... its not making sense.
Well I was just trying to see if there was a general ballpark that people seem to be around. I do know there are many factors. But if you are trying to help, I did answer your questions as I really am having some issues. :grin2:It's not quite as simple as "what's your shock length?". There are soooo many other variables that contribute to what your shock length needs to be.
Where are your forks set at in the triples? Flush
What cartridges are you using (where does that put the overall fork length at)? Andreani valves front , TTX rear
What springs are you using? 10.6 front , 10 rear
Which triples are you using? Stock
What tire manufacture and size are you using? Pirelli SC 200
What's your wheel base? hm
What's your swingarm length? hm
Are you using shims in the clevis? second to furthers back.
What spring are you using on the shock? See above
If you have the 2016, where do you have the swingarm pivot plates set at? Stock, didnt know this could be changed
Then from there what problems are you having? Struggling with rear grip at apex to roll on. Keep spinning up the rear until I can stand the bike up. Also pushing wide in my corners but looks like I have an idea on that one.
What makes you think shock length will correct your issue? Hoping it will address the running wide issue.
How do you know the spring is right/wrong for you and your pace? I dont, working on that. But lack of traction is an issue at any pace.
Is the front your issue and not the rear? Front is solid, it feels great after some work
There are no "magic numbers" for setting up geometry. There are so many variables that are specific to each bike and to each rider. To give you an example, we set up Bobby Fong's and Dave Anthony's 10rs differently because of the way they ride the bikes. Yes they are in a "general ballpark" but they are using different springs from each other based on their needs and the track layout.
I would strongly suggest you find a competent tuner to work with to figure out your setup. I've seen riders waste (and I do mean waste) time and money trying figure out settings because of what they read on the internet.
I am struggling with edge grip. As the bike starts to stand up its hooks up fine but thats where I am getting pushed wide. I was told by a few guys I need to raise the rear. It was set to 311mm eye to eye. I was told I need to be around 315-317 mm.Do you know how much preload is in the shock? Did you buy an off the shelf shock or did someone massage it for you? I did get it off a Ohlins dealer BUT I think it came to me untouched :|
What kind of pace are you running? I am a podium AM , so upper mid pack expert club pace.
Do you know where your rebound and compression are set? Both are set to 8 clicks out .
There are generally two kind of grip issues, edge grip and drive grip.
Edge grip - When you first crack open the throttle the tire looses grip
Drive grip - You're already well into the throttle and the bike drives wide. See reply
You mention you have both problems? You also said you have an idea for fixing the drive on exit, what's your fix?
Yea, not what I got the correct springs in the forks, they are great. The Andreani kit really is good. I was having my doubts.I have the same exact problem as you. Roll on grip at apex is pathetic. I still manage to run good times by adjust my riding style and standing the bike up to get on the gas, but it's not anywhere close to what I'd like the bike to feel.
This is what I have going on, I weigh 185 w/no gear.
Front forks Andreani 9.8 and 10.3 spring. about 35mm of sag, forks in stock position.
Rear shock: JRi with 560 spring, 33mm of sag, stock length.
Swing arm eccentric flipped to lower position (lowering angle).
3mm of shims to raise the rear.
-1 front sprocket, stock rear, stock number of links of chain, so wheelbase is very slightly extended.
I do not experience squatting, nor does my bike seem to run wide when I apply the gas. The main problem is drive grip, especially initial roll on when the bike is fully leaned at the apex.
The Andreani kit has vastly improved the front end feel and I have been able to use that to my advantage especially when trail braking.
Now back to the rear, after talking to a few riders who have extensively tested the bike, I keep hearing that the rear needs to be stiffer, combination of more preload and compression damping, I have heard 25mm of sag.
So next time out I am trying more preload and go from there. This has been haunting me and I hope I can figure it out soon.
Maybe you can try this as well and let us know if it helps.
Sag is useless. I can make the sag whatever I want with rate and preload. I care about what the rider feedback is, not a stupid number. Walk over and talk to ANY pro rider and and ask if you use sag. You'll get laughed out of the paddock.You guys are like the 5th people to say ditch the sag concern lol.
You guys are like the 5th people to say ditch the sag concern lol.
You're right, I jumped the gun by saying sag is useless. So let me rephrase my previous statement and say sag is not the end all be all like many riders think it is. I've had way too many riders argue that the bike should be correct since the sag numbers are right on and the first thing I want to do is change preload settings based off their feedback.I respectfully disagree and I will not tell you to ditch the sag numbers. Those numbers are very critical when sorting out geometry issues and getting repeatable consistent results. They also help rule out tire wear from incorrect spring rates and insure the shock is riding in the correct area of the stroke etc. For the majority of average riders they can easily dictate whether the bike is working with the rider or against them.
The only point where I start to disregard sag settings is when working with professional riders that are within say 5 or less seconds of a given lap record. When a rider is moving at a pace like that they have their own methods to achieve the feel, grip and confidence they need to maintain that kind of pace and many of their bikes are set-up completely counter-intuitive to what a rider running at 10, 15 or 20 seconds off the pace requires. At that point we focus less on proper sag numbers in favor of specializing the suspension components to aid the rider in maximizing grip and the precision of the steering by using the suspension to dynamically change the geometry. Things like reducing fork oil levels and altering top-out springs, different valve specs etc.
What's funny is EVERYBODY knows what numbers to use so it's not really a secret. :badteeth:if this question was about an R6.....NObody on a R6 board would respond lol....they keep everything race wise on that bike a secrete.
Thats why I love how we Kaw Boyz share stuff all these years.