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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Here we go take two

The bike# gen1 2004 with 08 retainers, factory pro v stacks, race intake cam, BMC filter, block off plates, cycle pirates throttle, hamaguchi full exhaust system, gen 3 swingarm, 4 gen rear caliper, cbr 08 monoblock front calipers, PT radial master cyclinder, custom core braided lines, ohlins rear, comp/reound gold valve forks, gipro gear atre, race catch tank,hids, heated grips, cams degreed to 106 in and 103 ex, pc3 and race ecu via modded sub harness to allow radiator fan to function as per normal.

Tuning# I am using a wego3 and tune on the road and when i do track days which i have done one of since putting the race ecu. I did have a custom map before i switched to the race ecu and a member here was kind enough to write up for me how to convert it to pcv but since did not have the cam degreed back then the map will be no good especially since it had timing changes made in the ignition module i was running.

As the bike sits# i am only using the pc3 to make fuel adjustments at 500rpm marks and the race ecu for the 1000rpm marks except after 11000rpm where the ecu has 500rpm steps. I had altered my old timing map ( halved it ) and tried it but did not seem to work. So now i made a new timing map with with one degree to five degree progressively throughout the rev range which really seemed to liven the responsiveness of the bike up.

the problem# I have almost maxed out the fuel map to 30% added fuel at above 9000rpm from 60% throttle and am only just getting around the 13.2 afr range. I would have thought this should be no near max added fuel as it before but maybe I wrong? Another issue maybe not sure but the pc3 does not activate off of the ignition like it use to. what i mean is i could send retrieve maps with key on now i have to have the bike running or plug a 9v battery to the pc3?

the request# I would be truely greatful if someone with a gen one setup with a race ecu would be willing to share their maps for fuel , spark , sub throttle and acelleration comp. especially the last two since i have not even started to mess with those two. Plus generally looking for advise from those who do there own tuning so i can get her back to running how she used to or better.dont get me wrong she is running good but shouldn't i be able to get the motor to run richer up top than 13.2afr?

Hope this reads a little better than this mornings rush job and always i look forward to the gurus knowledge and suggestions. Oh and if it wasn't for this site my bike would probably be standard and my garage wouldn't have old parts everywhere, Ha:lol:
 

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Here we go take two

The bike# gen1 2004 with 08 retainers, factory pro v stacks, race intake cam, BMC filter, block off plates, cycle pirates throttle, hamaguchi full exhaust system, gen 3 swingarm, 4 gen rear caliper, cbr 08 monoblock front calipers, PT radial master cyclinder, custom core braided lines, ohlins rear, comp/reound gold valve forks, gipro gear atre, race catch tank,hids, heated grips, cams degreed to 106 in and 103 ex, pc3 and race ecu via modded sub harness to allow radiator fan to function as per normal.

Tuning# I am using a wego3 and tune on the road and when i do track days which i have done one of since putting the race ecu. I did have a custom map before i switched to the race ecu and a member here was kind enough to write up for me how to convert it to pcv but since did not have the cam degreed back then the map will be no good especially since it had timing changes made in the ignition module i was running.

As the bike sits# i am only using the pc3 to make fuel adjustments at 500rpm marks and the race ecu for the 1000rpm marks except after 11000rpm where the ecu has 500rpm steps. I had altered my old timing map ( halved it ) and tried it but did not seem to work. So now i made a new timing map with with one degree to five degree progressively throughout the rev range which really seemed to liven the responsiveness of the bike up.

the problem# I have almost maxed out the fuel map to 30% added fuel at above 9000rpm from 60% throttle and am only just getting around the 13.2 afr range. I would have thought this should be no near max added fuel as it before but maybe I wrong? Another issue maybe not sure but the pc3 does not activate off of the ignition like it use to. what i mean is i could send retrieve maps with key on now i have to have the bike running or plug a 9v battery to the pc3?

the request# I would be truely greatful if someone with a gen one setup with a race ecu would be willing to share their maps for fuel , spark , sub throttle and acelleration comp. especially the last two since i have not even started to mess with those two. Plus generally looking for advise from those who do there own tuning so i can get her back to running how she used to or better.dont get me wrong she is running good but shouldn't i be able to get the motor to run richer up top than 13.2afr?

Hope this reads a little better than this mornings rush job and always i look forward to the gurus knowledge and suggestions. Oh and if it wasn't for this site my bike would probably be standard and my garage wouldn't have old parts everywhere, Ha:lol:
Am I reading this correct?

You "was" running an ignition module as in past tense? I take it you had an ignition module on it and now you do not?

If that's the case then that's why the PC3 now needs to have the bike running or a 9v adapter to send or retrieve maps. The ignition module back feed 12 volts into the PC3 which was powering it. Without the IM Module you will have the problem you just described, which is normal.


.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
that is correct I removed the ignition module as no need for it with the race ecu. thanks for the info its been so long since I put it on there i couldn't remember how it worked.
 

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Use the DJ unit to do all your fuel mapping. Leave the ecu blank. It's easier.

Ign mapping is touchy. If you take someone else's numbers expect issues.

Good luck!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
wouldn't you get more precise fueling using the race ecu? my main concern with using the ecu is I have maxed it out at a couple of points and I thought for a 30% increase in fuel it would be richer than 13.2afr.
 

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wouldn't you get more precise fueling using the race ecu? my main concern with using the ecu is I have maxed it out at a couple of points and I thought for a 30% increase in fuel it would be richer than 13.2afr.
Actually the resolution in the DJ software is better than the kit ecu and it's far easier for the tuner. The Canadian factory Kawasaki team used a PCV (when there was such a thing a few years ago).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well might have to rethink the way I am tuning it then. I guess the ecu is still best for igntion changes? :dontknow:

Found that data logger sensor was slightly loose, so if it stops raining i will find out if that was causing any issues.

Does anyone have a sub throttle maps they are willing to share or any other for that matter. Obviously if i use them it is at my own risk, just interested to see what others are using before attemping to make my own.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
been looking through all the old threads on ignition timing and was wondering why it is regardless off how much advance is used it seems in most case at high rpm's at 80% throttle and up the advance is backed off a bit?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Not making the progress i am wanting at the moment, hopefully the track day on Friday will help make some break through's in the tuning but was hoping to concentrate on my riding. thems the breaks i guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
well thought i should update thread after the track day
the bike ran really well at the track with the new timing map I made. it pulled hard right from down low right through the rev range.
still running a bit to lean up top so i have made a secondary throttle map to try and feed it progressively more air as the revs rise.
I found a couple of standard secondary throttle maps for different year zx10r but none for the gen 1.
would anyone have the standard neutral secondary map file?
the one I used i believe is for the 2nd gen and what i did was to add an increasing % opening the to it the whole way through.
once it fines up will go and test it and fine tune. hopefully i will be able to get to the track one more time and get some data on how its running soon after.
Oh well all an on going learning curve and hopefully the secondary throttle map will have the same positive results the ignition map did.
 

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Here is what we don't know: Fuel pressure, condition of injectors and the dyno operator. I am running the race ECU in my gen 1 and I am running 12.7:1 AFR at max power (177hp at 13,100). I can't say enough about how may dyno "sniffers" are wrong. There is no substitute for a fresh wide band O2 sensor vs. the Co2 sniffers used by DynoJet. Best take it to another dyno and just in case, maybe run a high concentration of Techron injector cleaner before hand for a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well been a while since i updated this thread due to an unexpected operation on guts.
it turns out that my fuel pump was on the way out and only pumping out 50mls in four seconds during test.
So i have ordered a 255 lph fuel pump and will install and start tuning from scratch again.
I back flushed the fuel filter housing for good measure as well.
Glad to have identified the issue as i felt like i was casing a ghost and getting no where fast.
Funny how just when i think i have read every thread on here only to have an issue and find the relevant information to help solve.
Got love this place. Cost me money modding for fun and saved me some through the solutions provided.
Will update after pump install.
 

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i've had more bad fuel pumps than good on my builds for the last year. show up once on the dyno. last 4 bikes seemed to perform well before tuning but all went lean up top when tuning losing hp. also have not been able to make the race int. work well on our bikes with the degree numbers ur running. i'm 4 degrees higher on both int./ex. after being at lower lc's. lost no midrange upping cam degree on both, just gained a more powerful top end rush that held on longer. results track verified. good luck with ur build.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Funny you say that i was starting to think maybe i should have gone higher on the cam numbers and had planned to but at the last minute changed my mind as i was looking for it to be strong from the bottom right through. I not to concerned with it having a huge top end but once i have the fuel pump sorted and i have a proper gauge on how its running i may have another look at my setup. As always good to hear your experiences. When you say track do mean race track or drag strip ?
 

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i run the 255lph walbro in tank unit no crushed regulator holds 44 lbs constant to 13500 on dyno. makes for consistient tune. we drag race/street ride. did not build a dyno queen, wanted a strong powerband first. sought it with cam #'s like yours first. bike felt strong, but track showed different. every increase in cams increased performance but real increase only came with last high degree. now 105 hp at 7k and 193 at rev limit with 87 ft.lbs. trque. bike is throttle position tuned from idle every 10% throttle to wot and rips everywhere and is a factor in response at low rpm. surprised the higher #'s work down low/mid as they do. very linear intense powerband. know we dragrace but powerband perfect for what u do also. degreed this int. 4 times and about to trash it for lack of track performance originally. also had a customer from la. struggling with same so 2 different bikes being tested on degree. hard to believe but moving int. from 108 to 110.5 with no other changes netted +7 mph in 1/4. both bikes dropped et and gained mph. if anything bottom end/mid range improved. realize engine combos different, but this is our experience with cam timing on 08 race int. stk. ex. cam 107/108 on our setups. 106 will work good on gen 1 motor.
 

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also forgot to add this is with secondary flies and rods removed. we can only launch bike about 6k as it is too violent above that. walks away from busa's and 14's in 4k 6th gear roll on,all a testament in itself as to low/mid power. runs 130 1/8, 160 1/4 so not short anywhere on acceleration. didnt mean to jack ur tuning thread. glad u figured it out. had my share of fueling problems latley on others bikes. convinced u will benefit from different cam timing. good luck with ur racing. hope u fly.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Not jacking my thread at all, always interested in input from those with vast knowledge base tuning the 10r.
Is there any advantage to a walbro 255 lph pump over other brands i bought cheap one with idea of upgrading if necessary
i have set off throttle bodies with secondaries and shaft removed that i ran before i changed to what supposed to be a gen 1 race cam and degreed it but it bogged a bit low down if the revs dropped off. Having said i did not play with accelerator pump feature on the pc3 until after i removed them for the standard.
Not keen on pulling the motor out to degree the cams again might have to see if i can manage with it still in the frame.
That thing of yours sounds like it pulls like a freight train.
Bugger just thought i will need to change the ignition timing again.
 
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