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Discussion Starter #1
How does a roadbike based WSB go within 2 seconds a lap of a Prototype based MOTO GP around Philip Island. Considering a WSB's run a pirelli control tyre (mass produced) with 3 different choices of compound.And MOTO GP use hand built tyres that can be produced overnight and to the track (Europe) the next morning. Hundreds of compounds I assume.
They have same capacity engines (10cc diff).
Do the MOTO GP boys need to pull their fingers out or what?
 

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zx10lover said:
How does a roadbike based WSB go within 2 seconds a lap of a Prototype based MOTO GP around Philip Island. Considering a WSB's run a pirelli control tyre (mass produced) with 3 different choices of compound.And MOTO GP use hand built tyres that can be produced overnight and to the track (Europe) the next morning. Hundreds of compounds I assume.
They have same capacity engines (10cc diff).
Do the MOTO GP boys need to pull their fingers out or what?
Because to go just a little quicker when you are are already going really really fast is a lot harder then going a little quicker when you are slow...

Its like HP and top speed and drag. Otherwise a zx-10r would have a potential top speed (when correctly geared and not speedlimited) of 50% more than say a zx-7r. But it doesn't....

Also Corser, Bayliss, Hodgson, Xaus, et al. have all stepped up to MotoGP and not cut it. Bayliss goes back to wsbk and throws down the gauntlett...
 

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The MotoGP boys ain't no slow pokes if you look at the fact that Bayliss and Barros weren't tearing it up last year in MotoGP. But they are doing really well this year in WSB. I doubt that they got faster in the off season.

But I think you may have a slight misconception if you think the liter bikes you and I can buy bear any real relationship to the liter bikes that they race in WSB. Make no mistake, those are hand built, one of a kind race bikes that are somewhat based on production bikes. They have very few "production" parts left in them and any productions parts that are left, have been modified. Dude, their forks are many times more expensive than your production ZX10. It has been reported that the HRC forks for the CBR1000RR are in the ballpark of $125,000 per set. That is not a production bike. As a matter of fact, when Colin Edwards rode the RC211V, he had them fit the forks off of his old WSB SP2 because he felt they worked better than the forks that came on the RC211V.
 

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WSBKs have had a lot more development time especially the Ducatis.
The teams in WSBK know what there doing and so do the riders, just because Bayliss could not get results in Motogp does not mean he could not cut it. There were a lot of good riders not getting good results on so called good bikes, as you should know it comes down to fitting the right rider with right bike. Riders like Rossi who have changed classes and bikes every few seasons from a young age will find it easy to adapt to change unlike riders like Bayliss who have been riding one class of bike for so long. If Bayliss had stayed at Ducati in Motogp last year he would have had better results as Caparossi only got it workng for him well last year.
With all that said i would love Ducati to setup a WSBK at the Motogp weight limit and run some Motogp spec qualifiers and let Bayliss loose on it.
 

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and to top it off 2 sec is eternity. check out the Motogp practice or qualifying times and see just how many riders are within 1sec of the quickest and i suspect you'll see 4-5 every race weekend.

BD
 

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zeta xray said:
It has been reported that the HRC forks for the CBR1000RR are in the ballpark of $125,000 per set. That is not a production bike. As a matter of fact, when Colin Edwards rode the RC211V, he had them fit the forks off of his old WSB SP2 because he felt they worked better than the forks that came on the RC211V.
I remember hearing a few years ago that that forks on Mladin's bike (I know, AMA) ran around $50,000 but this is just shocking. It makes me wonder how much work could be put into one componont that would make it cost $125K.
 

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Andy said:
I remember hearing a few years ago that that forks on Mladin's bike (I know, AMA) ran around $50,000 but this is just shocking. It makes me wonder how much work could be put into one componont that would make it cost $125K.
I think the cost can be split into R&D(never cheap) accurate machining & semi precious alloys, everything on a moto gp bike is a limited product that will only see use on a racetrack, that's why the figures seem so high.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thankyou all for your replies.
I still think the MOTO GP class needs to pull their collective fingers out
Bayliss broke the old lap record on Sunday that stood from 1999 (Corser)
Weight, Tyres, Budgets??????
 

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yeah them superbike bikes are puttin out like 214hp so they aren't far off really and the ducs have traction control so they are not normal bikes by ant stretch. Barros even said as far as power goes he did not think that the Motogp bike felt much more powerful if at all compared to his Honda superbike
 

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Anyone remember how close 250 Gp 2 strokes came to the 500's lap times back in the day?
500 2 strokes had so much power, so quickly, that it was hard to use and 250's made up alot on handling.

Still what they are working on- using what they have available and making it hookup and not kill tires.


Side note-
My buddy used to race hare scrambles (Florida Trail Riders) ranked 3rd one year I think.
He started using an XL650 honda when others were still on CR500's.
Same basic reason- it hooked up better in the woods. Did not spend time slapping from side to side on tree roots.
He said it pissed people off to see the light bobbing, comming up on them too, they knew it was him on a heavy 4stroke putting along.
 

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zx10ragentorange said:
yeah them superbike bikes are puttin out like 214hp so they aren't far off really and the ducs have traction control so they are not normal bikes by ant stretch. Barros even said as far as power goes he did not think that the Motogp bike felt much more powerful if at all compared to his Honda superbike
Maybe he wasnt twisting the throttle..
 

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zx10lover said:
Thankyou all for your replies.
I still think the MOTO GP class needs to pull their collective fingers out
Bayliss broke the old lap record on Sunday that stood from 1999 (Corser)
Weight, Tyres, Budgets??????
That was the World Superbike lap record, not the out right motorcycle lap record.... Here is a link to all of the motorcycle lap records at Phillip Island. It hasn't been updated yet with the new WSB lap record that was just set. Google any of the tracks, and you'll see that MotoGP bikes have the fastest laps.

http://www.phillipislandcircuit.com.au/file_admin/laprecords-bikes.pdf

Like others have said, 2 or 3 seconds is huge in racing. And the quicker the time, the harder it is to improve on it. 10 hp more and/or 10 lbs less, isn't going to have a major impact on the times. There has and always will be deminishing returns as the pace gets quicker and quicker... Look at a $9k 600 vs $11k liter vs $40k Superstock vs $200k Superbike vs $2m MotoGP bike... The 600 is probably only 10 seconds a lap slower than the MotoGP bike, and maybe even closer at a slower track. Does that make the MotoGP bike crap? Of course not. It just shows how good, and close to race bikes that sport bikes are. And how difficult and how much money it takes to go faster.


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Gilberts Ti ZX-10R said:
That was the World Superbike lap record, not the out right motorcycle lap record.... Here is a link to all of the motorcycle lap records at Phillip Island. It hasn't been updated yet with the new WSB lap record that was just set. Google any of the tracks, and you'll see that MotoGP bikes have the fastest laps.

http://www.phillipislandcircuit.com.au/file_admin/laprecords-bikes.pdf

Like others have said, 2 or 3 seconds is huge in racing. And the quicker the time, the harder it is to improve on it. 10 hp more and/or 10 lbs less, isn't going to have a major impact on the times. There has and always will be deminishing returns as the pace gets quicker and quicker... Look at a $9k 600 vs $11k liter vs $40k Superstock vs $200k Superbike vs $2m MotoGP bike... The 600 is probably only 10 seconds a lap slower than the MotoGP bike, and maybe even closer at a slower track. Does that make the MotoGP bike crap? Of course not. It just shows how good, and close to race bikes that sport bikes are. And how difficult and how much money it takes to go faster.


Chris
I know that was the WSB lap record, my point was it has stood for 7 years and the MOTO GP bikes are only 2 seconds quicker.
And you are the one that pointed out how much more expensive they are.
Thankyou for your input.
And yes the whole point of this is proving MOTO GP is slow for the outlay and R&D.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 

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zx10lover said:
I know that was the WSB lap record, my point was it has stood for 7 years and the MOTO GP bikes are only 2 seconds quicker.
And you are the one that pointed out how much more expensive they are.
Thankyou for your input.
And yes the whole point of this is proving MOTO GP is slow for the outlay and R&D.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
So how would you make them faster??? Nothing is proved here at all:headshake
 

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i think it has been proved here that you need to spend a lot of cash to go looking for a little extra in results... and results are harder to find than pure performance values
 

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good point Littlenose. Performance numbers are generally a function of R&D $$$. Lap times are a function of rider and machine. Until there is an exceptional combination of unique ride and unique machine, results(IE lap times) will only improve slowly, in small increments.
 

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i'm going :eek:t:

interesting to see the exhaust can not dissapearing compleatly under the belly in the Yamaha... i thought it would have been more slash cut this year.
 

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LittleNose said:
i'm going :eek:t:

interesting to see the exhaust can not dissapearing compleatly under the belly in the Yamaha... i thought it would have been more slash cut this year.
I wish somebody would bring one like that out for our bikes:ayyy:
 

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3 seconds over 20 laps is a full minute at the finish. You could have your lid off, kiss the brolly girl and pop a beer before the WSB bike crossed the stripe.
 
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