[Ergotomine]

Possible Failure,Please check your Rotors.

Background:- 05 1st gen 10R, 12k miles, standard disks not warped, scored or worn at all.
OK I've done the CBR 1000R upgrade along with HEL hoses, and in the last week i've fitted the ISR M/C.
I did the CBR upgrade around 3 months ago, the hoses have been on since I bought the bike. The ISR M/C doesn't come into the equation. Around 6 weeks ago I started to notice what I can only describe as the same sort of "clicking, sharp horrible feedback etc" as you would get with worn / mis-adjusted steering head bearings. 1st we checked the head bearings - perfect. We got it up on front paddock stands and immediately replicated the issue, we tried turning the front wheel with the brakes on; and straight off got click click as we moved it {the wheel} back and forth, not an issue we decided, the pads are moving back and forth a fraction in the calipers.
WRONG. I took the bike into my suspension guru on Tuesday before my 1st ever Trackday, after he had finished I asked for his opinion on the "loose" pads.
IT ISN'T THE PADS. The Rotors are moving on the carriers by at least 2mm, Declared totally unsafe by the suspension techs.

1. Anyone else got this ? Please check yours.
2. Is it acceptable after 12k miles ?
3. Are the standard disk to carrier "Hollow Rivets" {I don't know the correct technical name for them} not of a high enough quality to cope with "Good, Proper, Quality" Calipers ? Or is it the carriers or disks themselves ?
4. Do I have any case to raise the issue with Kawasaki ?
5. Is mine a 1 off defect ?

I WOULD STILL DO THE CALIPER UPGRADE AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE ELSE TO DO IT.
I just want to know if it's a 1 off, Warn others if it could be an issue, get to the bottom of it etc etc.

I wont know exactly what part has worn until they are dissected.

Thanks in advance
Ergo

 

[Crazi]

At first I was thinking ok so the rotors are moving... They are supposed to move. Then I envisioned 2mm of rotor play! WOW. Its not normal and even with aftermarket full floaters that click all the time, I have never heard of another case of the rotors buttons (the hollow rivets) having 2mm of play. The full floaters I played around with had less than 1mm of play side to side and along the axis.

Unfortunately, I doubt you could really go to Kaw and do more than complain because its such an isolated incident. WOW tho... 2mm!! From street riding??? Wow...

Here is a link to a post I made on the 12r forum a while back. http://kawasakiworld.com/zx-12r/36693-free-full-floating-rotors.html

Sounds like the springs on the rotor buttons started giving up and caused ALOT more play between the carrier and the rotor. As was said in that post, full floaters have alot more buttons to distribute the load and so maybe once yours became a little more full than semi floating, they slowly wore away at the aluminum carrier (button are steel) until you ended up with the 2mm of play you have now.

Did you or the suspension tech measure 2mm of play or is it an assumption? Either way, you are in need of new rotors. ZX14 rotors will bolt on but you will need larger spacers for the calipers.

 

[tasos]

Mine are like this too. I think there is nothing you can do about it (safely)? I just found others (used), hope they are good, or i will go with new aftermarket.

At first you thought it was the tripple clamps, then the forks right?

 

[Stealth Rider]

I have a clicking noise on my brakes too (zx6r brakes on an 05 zx10), but its only when my bike is moving backwards and you hear it once you release the brakes. I figured it was just the pads moving since the bike was moving backwards causing the pads to move in opposite direction as normal.

 

[garth285]

My breaking full floaters came with a lot of play, when I show some people the play they have they are like WTF is wrong with them but they seriously came brand new outta the package with the play in it. I'll see if I can measure them. They havent gotten any worse at all though so I think mine are supposed to be like this, my old boss had the same issue as me though but he had iron rotors for some race bike and they came brand new in the package with what would normally be over excessive play.... but yet again these are aftermarket rotors that are 600-1000 bucks a set

 

[JimmyC]

My Axis Iron Ductilerotors move around quite a bit and I have never hadany problems.. Aren't the stockers supposed to floata bit??

 

[SUPER K]

My stockers are warped at 3500 miles, 2 trackdays, stock pads, 14 calipers. Nasty high speed feedback and shaking in the front end.

 

[Ergotomine]

I spoke to Kawasaki, I couldn't get past a very arrogant customer service rep.
I tried to make the point that warranty aside, a pair of well maintained brakes, rotors etc should last more than 12k, the response to every question or comment I made was "I'm sorry I can't comment" I even got the same answer when I asked if a new genuine pair would last more than 12k.
After 10minutes of this I started to loose it and told him that people with his sort of attitude are what looses his company customers with years of brand loyalty.
Just to clarify, I wasn't insisting on any sort of recompence, I just wanted an explanation, or for them to at least examine them and tell me what and why had failed.
Any reccomendations for good aftermarket rotors that don't feel like wood ?
Thx Ergo

 

[CheeseHeadNinja]

that's strange... i did a caliper swap (zx14) and soon afterwards i developed a chattering like you had. But it turned out to be my head bearings (no wheelies or crap like that). Now after fixing that, I've noticed it seems to have a tiny tiny bit of chatter again under braking.. I'll have to check the rotors. Better not be the head bearing again.

Is there something with a brake swap that causes extra stress on the front end? (rotors and head bearing?)

 

[Ergotomine]

It Is Definitely Due To Upgrading Calipers

that's strange... i did a caliper swap (zx14) and soon afterwards i developed a chattering like you had. But it turned out to be my head bearings (no wheelies or crap like that). Now after fixing that, I've noticed it seems to have a tiny tiny bit of chatter again under braking.. I'll have to check the rotors. Better not be the head bearing again.

Is there something with a brake swap that causes extra stress on the front end? (rotors and head bearing?)

I have been getting to the bottom of this issue all week, I have spoken to and consulted all the reputable brake / suspension companies that I can, also Kawasaki Technicians {who spoke "off the record"}
Conclusion :- The specification of the stock system is just enough for the standard disk carrier {Hard Anodised Alloy}
It is not a high enough specification for any "decent caliper" upgrade.
It can easily be mistaken for head bearings or loose pads.
To check, 1st make sure all the hollow pressed steel rivets are clean & not gummed up then grip the disk with both hands, 1 on each side of the disk, apply a lot of force clockwise and anticlockwise, If you have the problem you will notice it easily.{There should be a miniscule amount of movement, thats what is meant by "Floating / Semi Floating}
Alternative method, sit on the bike with the front brake applied, rock the bike back and forth {it may help to have a friend put his eyes / ears close to the disk / caliper} you should hear a distinctive clicking type noise.
I think that only people that "ride hard" will notice it as quickly as myself { around 1000 miles since the Caliper swap}
In no way am I saying people shouldn't upgrade, IMHO good brakes are essential on a bike like the 10, the upgrade could just save your life !
I just want people to be aware of this possibility because the carrier dissintegrating at 175mph is not a pretty thought
Ergo

 

[Ervins]

WOW! That is good to know. I have not had any issues yet but due to the sluggish traffic in SoCal I can never really go past 90 anywhere and since traffic is to congested have not had to do any sudden stops. I will check my set up when I get back down to SoCal since I just drove up from there to spend the weekend up here at home. Interesting...I know I have braked really hard with my set up a couple of time but have not encountered shakes, wobbles, or a "warped" feeling. I can definitely see the story working because if something is spec'd for a weaker caliper, a stronger caliper changes the "configuration set up" by a decent margin to say the least. Thus, as you stated the stronger part over powers the weaker component which was matched to a weaker caliper. Good find...Though at higher speed, everything always changes exponentially compared to "normal" riding. Thanks for heads up!

 

[Lougots]

??? The stock calipers make the brake lever squishy but don't lessen stopping power. you can still do stoppies and/or lock up the front wheel. Caliper upgrades make the lever firmer and may lessen the amount of lever force needed, but the stopping torque on the rotor is the same.