Oil Type (race bike) Clarification

14803 Views 18 Replies 10 Participants Last post by dricked, Aug 2, 2017

Honey Badger

Discussion Starter · Jul 26, 2017

Okay, I can't seem to find much information on this. I asked the dealer I got the bike from, their information was that synthetic is great on the race teams they work with, BUT, all of those teams have done engine work and likely clutch work.

I have one shop that insists these bikes need mineral oil due to the clutch. The irony is one of them just blew up his clutch (apparently a cheap fix though). I've always ran a race synthetic in my previous track/race bikes, but they were pretty old tech, and didn't have slipper clutches.

I do my starts manually - I get great starts that way, so have no intention of changing to the launch control when I'm doing better doing it myself.

Curious if anyone has any sources? Owner's manual lists any of the 10w40s with no preference.

Bike is still technically pretty new - just over 1000 miles, but basically all of those are track miles. All oil changes thus far (2) have been mineral oil. I want to change it again before my next trackday, and am debating what kind to get....

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

dricked

· #2 · Jul 26, 2017

I use Lucas Oil and I noticed my engine is quite all weekend where as by Sunday morning it was quite noisy using 300V. I'm yet to replace a clutch using either oil.

The launch control on the gen 5 is really damn good. I got some pretty good starts on my gen 4 and hated the launch control on it as it was pretty much useless. Don't knock it until you try it!

Reactions: 4

obijack

· #3 · Jul 27, 2017

Maxima Extra4 and Motul 300v are ester products and are arguably the highest quality motorcycle oil on the market.

JayBoCC2

· #4 · Jul 27, 2017

I have run rotel T6 in my gen 1 on the track and off for as long as i've had it and have had no issues. Blackstone labs reports show the oil does very well and the motor (and slipper clutch) do not mind it at all.

I have run both motul 300v and 300v + rotel t6 blend in my gen 4 and blackstone labs tests were again positive.

As long as you change your oil frequently enough it does not matter what you put in. I've heard people running T6 and changing it every race weekend because of how cheap it is.

Honey Badger

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 28, 2017

JayBoCC2 said:
I have run rotel T6 in my gen 1 on the track and off for as long as i've had it and have had no issues. Blackstone labs reports show the oil does very well and the motor (and slipper clutch) do not mind it at all.

I have run both motul 300v and 300v + rotel t6 blend in my gen 4 and blackstone labs tests were again positive.

As long as you change your oil frequently enough it does not matter what you put in. I've heard people running T6 and changing it every race weekend because of how cheap it is.

Ya, this was something weird with the Gen 5 that they were told, but I can't find ANYTHING to back it up.

Thinking I'll just get the Kawi brand full syn - about the same price as any other out there, and it's "recommended" by kawasaki, so if it blows up, well, I'm using their oil LOL.

I'm pretty good about changing the oil on my race bike. My street bike sometimes gets stretched out, but even for that, it's a GSXR1K with 60K miles on it, and other than the exhaust valves stretching (common problem), is doing just fine...but I've typically used good oil, too.

JayBoCC2

· #6 · Jul 28, 2017

Honey Badger said:
Ya, this was something weird with the Gen 5 that they were told, but I can't find ANYTHING to back it up.

Thinking I'll just get the Kawi brand full syn - about the same price as any other out there, and it's "recommended" by kawasaki, so if it blows up, well, I'm using their oil LOL.

I'm pretty good about changing the oil on my race bike. My street bike sometimes gets stretched out, but even for that, it's a GSXR1K with 60K miles on it, and other than the exhaust valves stretching (common problem), is doing just fine...but I've typically used good oil, too.

I've heard the same thing. Supposedly its in the owners manual, so you could give that a quick look. And if you're ever wondering whats going on with your oil and motor, i highly recommend https://www.blackstone-labs.com/ used oil analysis.

Honey Badger

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 28, 2017

JayBoCC2 said:
I've heard the same thing. Supposedly its in the owners manual, so you could give that a quick look. And if you're ever wondering whats going on with your oil and motor, i highly recommend https://www.blackstone-labs.com/ used oil analysis.

Read that section of the owner's manual, it doesn't specify anything about that, just recommends the kawasaki oils or any others meeting a list of standards. Shop manual didn't seem to specify either.

Wondering if we heard it from the same source...

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JayBoCC2

· #8 · Jul 29, 2017

Honey Badger said:
Read that section of the owner's manual, it doesn't specify anything about that, just recommends the kawasaki oils or any others meeting a list of standards. Shop manual didn't seem to specify either.

Wondering if we heard it from the same source...

I did hear it from 'the shop' as you probably did, but i had heard it from a friend a good while before that so who knows where it started from. It never really made sense to me since there are numerous benefits to modern synthetic/ester oils over conventional oil when compared.

Victors

· #9 · Jul 29, 2017

Completely baseless.

Reactions: 1

scout

· #10 · Jul 29, 2017

Don't worry about the oil. The corp guys have the oil science right.

Otto Man

· #11 · Aug 1, 2017

Rotella T6 is life.

obijack

· #12 · Aug 1, 2017

Why would this particular engine HAVE to run on conventional oil? That makes zero sense. Also using Kawasaki Oil and Filters, keeping receipts and a log, will go a long way towards warranty work. Although If you have flashed your ecu like 99% of us, you might as well forget that.

IMSTuner

· #13 · Aug 1, 2017

obijack said:
Why would this particular engine HAVE to run on conventional oil? That makes zero sense. Also using Kawasaki Oil and Filters, keeping receipts and a log, will go a long way towards warranty work. Although If you have flashed your ecu like 99% of us, you might as well forget that.

I purchased a spare ecu for this reason alone lol.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LDH

· #14 · Aug 1, 2017

I generally refrain from participating in oil threads of any kind, but I will quickly throw out what I know about some pertinent details.

dricked said:
I use Lucas Oil and I noticed my engine is quite all weekend where as by Sunday morning it was quite noisy using 300V. I'm yet to replace a clutch using either oil.

obijack said:
Maxima Extra4 and Motul 300v are ester products and are arguably the highest quality motorcycle oil on the market.

Both of you are right. What they don't tell you is the best possible protection under race conditions generally means that the engine oil doesn't last as long and requires more frequent changes or you will experience exactly what dricked describes. Most people just aren't astute enough to observe the changes in the engine and/or transmission feel or engagement to realize that the oil is going off etc.

Back to the idea that the clutches require Conventional oil over Synthetic. This is both true & false depending on where & when you get the info. Because motorcycle engines share their oil with the transmission there are special friction modifiers required in motorcycle specific oil. The amount and type of those friction modifiers which are much more prevalent in Synthetic engine oils can lead to problems with clutch slippage depending on the type of modifier and the type of organic friction plates. This was a very big problem about 10-15 years ago because all the sudden bikes started coming off the showroom floor with 130-145 rwhp etc and it exacerbated those types of slippage conditions with more & more hp being available. Back then Molybdenum was added to a lot of Full Synthetic oils and was a well known killer of motorcycle clutches. Since then most reputable motorcycle engine oil manufacturers have taken steps to avoid those kinds of issues by changing their formulas and we are also seeing better friction plate designs to cope with the higher & higher horsepower machines we get to enjoy. The bottom line is the stories of failures from many years ago persist and in some cases still happen today so you get the perpetuation of warnings still being dangled over new buyers at dealerships.

It's very similar to when fuel injection first came on to the scene and all the old timers that had been working the parts counters at the dealerships for 40 years were still telling new bike owners that their bikes were too lean from the factory and needed to be ran richer (like they used to be back in the 70's & 80's with carbs) when the truth was most bikes were already too rich from the factory to compensate for the EPA's 1993 clean air act where they started testing for trace elements in exhaust gases and a rich mixture would hide a lot of those hydrocarbons etc during testing.

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Reactions: 2

obijack

· #15 · Aug 2, 2017

Thanks @LDH; I use maxima pro+ or Motul 7100 in my gsx-s1000 because it is my street bike. And I use the race oil in the gen 5 because it is my track bike. I remember hearing that a while back about the race oils. Good info.

Honey Badger

Discussion Starter · #16 · Aug 2, 2017

Thank you LDH for your honest and unbiased response, along with some good information on where these ideas may have sprouted from.

I've already ordered up the Kawi-branded full synthetic. The price is reasonable enough I can change it as often as I feel the need (which is fairly frequently on the race bike).

My GSXR I noticed a difference in oils. It loved the Repsol oil when I could still get that. It did fine on the Motorex, but it is not a fan of the Mobile 1, which I've used a grand total of twice in that bike just for that reason. That bike clearly has a preference at least with how I ride on the street. I will find it interesting to see if the replacement engine (from another bike) prefers similar oil to the original.

mpp12

· #17 · Aug 2, 2017

Im doing tack days.... how many track days per oil change do you recommend

JayBoCC2

· #18 · Aug 2, 2017

mpp12 said:
Im doing tack days.... how many track days per oil change do you recommend

It really depends on a lot of things. If you really want to know how your oil is standing up to the trackdays and street miles you need to get it tested via a reputable laboratory like https://www.blackstone-labs.com/ its only $25-35 to get a UOA and they will help you work on a correct oil change interval. More often is better of course, but you won't know how long is too long without a UOA.

Here are my past UOA's for some of mine/friends bikes/vehicles/motors. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5lcb7W17ZR6VkxacUdBbXlBTG8?usp=sharing

dricked

· #19 · Aug 2, 2017

mpp12 said:
Im doing tack days.... how many track days per oil change do you recommend

My oil is changed after each race weekend which is 6 40min sessions (a bit less but close enough). You could probably go longer. If I were on a stockish motor I'd pick a decent affordable oil and change it every track day. Skip the syn and longer drain intervals.

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