Kawasaki ZX-10R Forum banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Search didn't bring up much info.

Looking for some starting numbers for adjusting cut times with Flash Tune on a 2017 ZX10R.

Issue that led into this was the bike not shifting from 4th to 5th at high RPM under a load. Once I completely disconnected the QS, bike shifted old school just fine (still ran like a raped ape, but I miss my autoblip!!!).

Currently have Graves rearsets, GP shift. Also have a set of Bonimici rearsets for the bike.

Problem is obviously electrical, and since it works in all the other gears and under lower RPMs, I'm guessing it's definitely an issue with the cut times, not a loose wire or bad connector.

Just looking for some people who would have some specific numbers we can try to adjust this via Flash Tune. Do NOT have a kit harness. Time crunch here, so don't really have a ton of time to just play around with it and "see what works" so hoping to at least get some base numbers we can tweak but will get us in the right direction.
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
'16 ZX-10R KRT
Joined
·
15,808 Posts
What are your current killtime settings? I'm not familiar enough with the FlashTune software or the capabilities of it. I don't know what the settings are in it. Are they killtimes per gear? In milliseconds or percentages? I don't think they would correspond directly to the settings within the Woolich software. On my Gen 4, I used the QS4USB and had killtime settings per gear as follows:

1st->2nd = 75ms
2nd->3rd = 75ms
3rd->4th = 65ms
4th->5th = 55ms
5th->6th = 45ms

Again, I'm not confident that these numbers will translate over directly since they are for a different controller. These values worked well for my needs with it.

I would suggest that you just try adding about 10ms to your current killtime to lengthen it a bit to fix your issue (if that's what the values are in). It might be a bit of a trial-n-error way to go, but it shouldn't take much of a change to see if it responds. You can tweak the numbers to your liking if that doesn't work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What are your current killtime settings? I'm not familiar enough with the FlashTune software or the capabilities of it. I don't know what the settings are in it. Are they killtimes per gear? In milliseconds or percentages? I don't think they would correspond directly to the settings within the Woolich software. On my Gen 4, I used the QS4USB and had killtime settings per gear as follows:

1st->2nd = 75ms
2nd->3rd = 75ms
3rd->4th = 65ms
4th->5th = 55ms
5th->6th = 45ms

Again, I'm not confident that these numbers will translate over directly since they are for a different controller. These values worked well for my needs with it.

I would suggest that you just try adding about 10ms to your current killtime to lengthen it a bit to fix your issue (if that's what the values are in). It might be a bit of a trial-n-error way to go, but it shouldn't take much of a change to see if it responds. You can tweak the numbers to your liking if that doesn't work.
Thanks, that's a point in the right direction, appreciate it. Unfortunately at this point I'm having to rely on my shop/crew chief for this as I haven't invested in the FT myself yet (really probably need to, but not gonna happen in the next month or two!).

Right now, all those settings are still stock, we never messed with the cut times.
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
'16 ZX-10R KRT
Joined
·
15,808 Posts
Right now, all those settings are still stock, we never messed with the cut times.

:shady: Strange. If the killtimes weren't messed with, then why would only one shift point not work properly? That doesn't really make sense to me. Or are you referring to the killtimes that come standard with the FT ECU map that may actually be different than the OEM times from Kawi? :dontknow:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
:shady: Strange. If the killtimes weren't messed with, then why would only one shift point not work properly? That doesn't really make sense to me. Or are you referring to the killtimes that come standard with the FT ECU map that may actually be different than the OEM times from Kawi? :dontknow:
Rumor has it swapping the rearsets fucks with the sensor and you need to adjust the times. Trust me, has me scratching my head too, but I've heard it from some fairly reliable sources.
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
'16 ZX-10R KRT
Joined
·
15,808 Posts
Rumor has it swapping the rearsets fucks with the sensor and you need to adjust the times. Trust me, has me scratching my head too, but I've heard it from some fairly reliable sources.

In theory, I can believe that thought. But given that the switch is just a strain gauge I don't see how the rearset change would affect only one gear change and not all of them. That would make sense if the rearsets changed how the QS works for everything. But I'm only speculating on that and scratching my own head there.



Again, I don't know how the FTECU software works in the interface. But if it works like the Woolich software, the QS activation pressure is able to be modified since it's a strain gauge. Maybe you need to check and lower the activation pressure value instead of the killtimes. :idea: :dontknow:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
In theory, I can believe that thought. But given that the switch is just a strain gauge I don't see how the rearset change would affect only one gear change and not all of them. That would make sense if the rearsets changed how the QS works for everything. But I'm only speculating on that and scratching my own head there.



Again, I don't know how the FTECU software works in the interface. But if it works like the Woolich software, the QS activation pressure is able to be modified since it's a strain gauge. Maybe you need to check and lower the activation pressure value instead of the killtimes. :idea: :dontknow:
Ya, we're playing around with it. "Thankfully?" my shop/crew chief has the same bike and is experiencing the same issue, so he can do some trouble shooting on his bike before I involve mine :lol: But yes, it has us pretty stumped, but Laguna (where you're driving up hills at those kinds of speeds) REALLY made the problem obvious for both of us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mini update, we're still working this all out, but looks like we need the Kawi software in order to adjust the timing voltage on the QS. Flashtune doesn't allow it unless you have their sensor I guess. So, we're still seeing what options may exist, including just a reflash of the ECU to see if that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Mini update, we're still working this all out, but looks like we need the Kawi software in order to adjust the timing voltage on the QS. Flashtune doesn't allow it unless you have their sensor I guess. So, we're still seeing what options may exist, including just a reflash of the ECU to see if that helps.
Hey sorry, I don't mean to disrupt your thread, but I'm curious how you are able to adjust the QS using FTECU software? Mine has no options for that. Do you have their Auto-Blipper installed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hey sorry, I don't mean to disrupt your thread, but I'm curious how you are able to adjust the QS using FTECU software? Mine has no options for that. Do you have their Auto-Blipper installed?
We can't, that's what we found out yesterday. Need the Kawi software to do that unless you have the FT auto-blipper, which I do not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
903 Posts
AJ, why not get in touch directly with FT ECU folks and find out what the latest wisdom is? If this is an issue, there's a good chance they've heard about it. I know that on completely stock 2016+ zx10r, the kill times are too long, which makes for cozy shifts on the street but for track use they're kind of shit. So I reckon you have new values in there, which came with whatever data file was loaded into your bike by Jesus. Jesus can easily load it up on his computer and see what the values are without having to hook up to your bike. Take a pic with his phone and send it to you for evaluation. Seems like the higher the gear the shorter the cut time.

Also, there's a question of voltages. When the shift sensor is pressed or pulled, it generates different value voltage, which tells the ecu what is going on (upshifting or downshifting) If values are goofed up, it will also be quirky. So it's worth confirming those as well.

Also, I am reasonably confident that if rearsets were messing with your shift sensor, the problem would be with all shifts, rather than just one. So that's likely not the issue. That said, graves are probably better than Bonamici.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Final word from Kawasaki - there's no adjusting cut times or voltages for the QS with the stock ECU, period, the end. You need the kit ECU to do anything. So, basically, if the reflash doesn't help, pretty much screwed until I have the money to buy the kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
903 Posts
Final word from Kawasaki - there's no adjusting cut times or voltages for the QS with the stock ECU, period, the end. You need the kit ECU to do anything. So, basically, if the reflash doesn't help, pretty much screwed until I have the money to buy the kit.
Well wait, Kawasaki would most certainly say that about stock ECU because they, Kawasaki, don't offer any tools to make changes to it. However, FT-ECU software gets in on all of these settings in stock ECU and actually even MORE settings than KIT ECU/Software handle. So I would say that FT-ECU software is almost certainly able to manage these variables. If I were you, I would get int touch with FT-ECU and start working with them on this. The FT-ECU Data Link Kit you need to get is like $380 versus the Kawasaki kit-ecu/harness/cable which all comes up to near $2000. Don't forget that to install the kit-harness is a shit ton of work too, which will cost you as well. If you're on a budget, that's absolutely the way to go. Talk to MC Tech too, he's the FT-ECU rep/distributor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Well wait, Kawasaki would most certainly say that about stock ECU because they, Kawasaki, don't offer any tools to make changes to it. However, FT-ECU software gets in on all of these settings in stock ECU and actually even MORE settings than KIT ECU/Software handle. So I would say that FT-ECU software is almost certainly able to manage these variables. If I were you, I would get int touch with FT-ECU and start working with them on this. The FT-ECU Data Link Kit you need to get is like $380 versus the Kawasaki kit-ecu/harness/cable which all comes up to near $2000. Don't forget that to install the kit-harness is a shit ton of work too, which will cost you as well. If you're on a budget, that's absolutely the way to go. Talk to MC Tech too, he's the FT-ECU rep/distributor.
I'm confused. I have the FTECU bike side harness ($380), and the software does NOT allow you to adjust any QS settings. Are you saying if you get the auto-blipper package (another $380 bucks or so), the software will allow you to not only adjust auto-blip (down shift), but also QS (up shift)? In total, about 800 USD.

Wish FTECU had fan control, they do for Yamaha's but alas they don't put a lot of R&D in for Kawasaki.
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
'16 ZX-10R KRT
Joined
·
15,808 Posts
Well wait, Kawasaki would most certainly say that about stock ECU because they, Kawasaki, don't offer any tools to make changes to it. However, FT-ECU software gets in on all of these settings in stock ECU and actually even MORE settings than KIT ECU/Software handle. So I would say that FT-ECU software is almost certainly able to manage these variables. If I were you, I would get int touch with FT-ECU and start working with them on this. The FT-ECU Data Link Kit you need to get is like $380 versus the Kawasaki kit-ecu/harness/cable which all comes up to near $2000. Don't forget that to install the kit-harness is a shit ton of work too, which will cost you as well. If you're on a budget, that's absolutely the way to go. Talk to MC Tech too, he's the FT-ECU rep/distributor.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. :ayyy:


Kawasaki doesn't offer and doesn't deal with any of the reflash equipment. But the FTECU and Woolich kits are designed to modify the software in the ECU. Kawi doesn't. Both of those reflash kits can control the software code in the stock ECU. So Kawi won't talk about that since it's not authorized by them.



The Kit harness will work with the Kawi Kit ECU, but it doesn't have or support certain things. And it's expensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
903 Posts
I'm confused. I have the FTECU bike side harness ($380), and the software does NOT allow you to adjust any QS settings. Are you saying if you get the auto-blipper package (another $380 bucks or so), the software will allow you to not only adjust auto-blip (down shift), but also QS (up shift)? In total, about 800 USD.

Wish FTECU had fan control, they do for Yamaha's but alas they don't put a lot of R&D in for Kawasaki.
Hmm maybe you're onto something and I may have spoken too soon. The way it was explained to me, FT-ECU software gets into everything on the OEM ecu but maybe it's not fully so. I would say call up FT-ECU and ask them to be sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Hmm maybe you're onto something and I may have spoken too soon. The way it was explained to me, FT-ECU software gets into everything on the OEM ecu but maybe it's not fully so. I would say call up FT-ECU and ask them to be sure.
Jesus did talk to them, and you cannot adjust QS settings without the FT sensor (and I'm not 100% sure you can with it) - OEM sensor and OEM ECU, no-go. You can map the bike and such, but can't adjust those settings. :angryfire:

So, I'm going to *hope* that the Graves rearsets with a reflash at least makes it rideable with the QS/AB. If I have to learn to shift in a certain RPM range in those gears, so be it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
903 Posts
Jesus did talk to them, and you cannot adjust QS settings without the FT sensor (and I'm not 100% sure you can with it) - OEM sensor and OEM ECU, no-go. You can map the bike and such, but can't adjust those settings. :angryfire:

So, I'm going to *hope* that the Graves rearsets with a reflash at least makes it rideable with the QS/AB. If I have to learn to shift in a certain RPM range in those gears, so be it.
That is truly disappointing. I am not super stoked on the FT sensors personally, as I've seen that dual, stacked sensor setup get pretty wobbly and fail. I know they're a must for Yamaha R1s because those bikes don't come with any sensor but the OEM zx10r sensor is excellent and is very reliable. The only downside of it is its size (width) but that's largely a non-issue. So you're going to get it re-flashed? What's the change in the flash? Also, what is your gearing? On kit ecu, if you change your gearing, you have to update (tell) the ecu that--along with tire circumferences, etc. Different tire brands have different tire circumferences, as I'm sure you know. I imagine it has to do with the calculations it does for TC and whatever million other things it does.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That is truly disappointing. I am not super stoked on the FT sensors personally, as I've seen that dual, stacked sensor setup get pretty wobbly and fail. I know they're a must for Yamaha R1s because those bikes don't come with any sensor but the OEM zx10r sensor is excellent and is very reliable. The only downside of it is its size (width) but that's largely a non-issue. So you're going to get it re-flashed? What's the change in the flash? Also, what is your gearing? On kit ecu, if you change your gearing, you have to update (tell) the ecu that--along with tire circumferences, etc. I imagine it has to do with the calculations it does for TC and whatever million other things it does.
Yes, we're going to reflash it and make sure the things we can control are all set up properly for what I'll be running this weekend - doing that this afternoon on my way to the track actually. So will test it out tomorrow and see if things improve, or if there's an easier work around (like just making sure I don't wind out 4th gear)....
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
'16 ZX-10R KRT
Joined
·
15,808 Posts
Jesus did talk to them, and you cannot adjust QS settings without the FT sensor (and I'm not 100% sure you can with it) - OEM sensor and OEM ECU, no-go. You can map the bike and such, but can't adjust those settings. :angryfire:

So, I'm going to *hope* that the Graves rearsets with a reflash at least makes it rideable with the QS/AB. If I have to learn to shift in a certain RPM range in those gears, so be it.

Hmmm. Now the question is if that's an FTECU issue or is that based on the OEM equipment. The Woolich software allows those settings to be modified with the OEM sensor and ECU. Whether they do anything once set would be the follow-up question.
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top