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The pic of the crank still has the bearing on it. The bearing isnt in the cap. Not sure if you knew that or not as i know the pics arent the best. It was getting dark and my flash doesnt work. I guess i should pull the bearing to see the actual journal. I just didnt want to pull the bearing without knowing how to. Thanks brother. Appreciate any insight. I hate using my phone too but have to sometimes with where i live.
Ah. Now that's I'm not looking at the pics quickly on my mobile, I see that we're looking at the cap and the backside of the bearing. That's is strange though. The bearing should be stationary and not have those score marks. First thought is the bearing spun but wound up back in a proper orientation. You'll need to pull the bearing half to check the inside of it and the journal. Then you'll know. You have to do that anyway to reseat the bearing half in the cap for reuse anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #82
Just went out and took pics of the crank and backside of the bearing. The crank is smooth and has no scratches or anything like that (although the pic looks like there are) so i hope i will be ok with just bearings. The bearing was cocked a little if thats what "spun" means. Def appreciate all the help guys.
 

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OK so the pics are bad, and if you can't feel any roughness or pitting on that crank journal then go ahead and try to be lucky. You mentioned the cam chain is still on and as you have removed the block half i expect you still have the head on, ok cleaning is difficult without stripping out because you cannot use any type of solvent if it gets into other bearing surfaces it will dry out (de grease) the oil and be very bad on start up so! Using scotch bright and a little WD40 on the suspect crank journal often wiping away the lose residue and try to prevent it getting inside the oil passage way hole possibly try to plug this in a straight through fashion something like pencil or even some domestic sleeved wire, then obviously clean the rod both parts. If you cant see a colour marking black blue or brown (most likely black) on the bearings you are holding then remove the cap and bearing off of the rod which is also more or less at BDC (bottom dead centre) and you should be able to see the colour on an undamaged one, then order 2 new of that colour! Re-install the healthy ones using engine oil only (not assembly grease or engine eaze) then follow this method exactly like! Torque both the nuts back to 20 nm, (you must use a torque wrench) then with a long bar on the socket making note of the starting position turn 90 degree then the other return to first then turn a second 90 degree then again the second so you have effectively done 20 nm torque then a total of 1 half a turn (180 degrees) on both bolts. When you come to fit your new ones on the damaged journal do the same. The only safer way to have a go at catching any debri in there is to use a high power vacuum cleaner with a very small head, pencil size if possible even if you make something up for one time use only, it is very important you do not try to blow clean with high pressure air. Get it onto the oil passage ways in the crank and suck away, oil will come out and hopefully anything else that worked in there, vacuum away inside both halves into all the little nooks and crannies keep going you cant do this to much. OK so if we assemble the cases as you split them be very careful as to clean old gasket materiel away before your major vacuum session, be very meticulous with applying the new gasket seal as per the workshop manual. You should not worry about new rod bolts if they have not been off before, you are not in a position to measure any parts and to remove rods and pistons you would need to remove the head which you don't want to do. The manual states after torquing the bolts too 20nm to use a dial gauge to turn them 160 degree, well from experience sometimes on a refresh they have slackened off from that iv found using the 180 degree technique with a long bar negates the need for dial gauge and they have never been found slackened off on refresh this is quite common for race engine builders here to use this method. Good luck i hope it works for you, bur for me that would have been a complete strip down.
 

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Discussion Starter #84 (Edited)
Thank you for taking the time to explain everything. I think I pretty much understand everything. Forgive this stupid question. How do I remove the other half of the bearing from the rod? Do I need to pull the crank? When I install the new bearings they just kinda "sit" on the rod and cap or is there a certain way to install them? Even though I cant do this the 100% correct way I am thinking I should go ahead and do all the rod bearings. Thoughts? Where exactly is the color on the bearings? I cant see anything on the half I pulled.

Yes the head is still on right now and cam chain is still on. I assume I have to pull the cam chain to take out the crank if thats needed to install the rod side bearings.

Again please forgive the inexperienced questions, just in a tough spot right now. I wont just patch it back together and pass a problem to someone else. I am hoping that new bearings will get me back on the road and I intend on keeping the bike. Thanks again guys
 

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The bearings have a tang on them and fit in the groove of the rod. You will need to push the rod down or rotate the crank away from the rod to get the bearing out and in. If the bearing spun, which it did, the tangs will be knocked off from spinning. The tangs are supposed to stop the bearing from spinning. Where there is no oil, the heat/friction grabs the bearing and rotates it. I am fairly certain the rod is bad as well. Get some pics of the rod, where the long rod meets the lower bearing. If it's black, replace.
IMO, tear everything down. Put bolts from sections of the motor in a ziplock bag and mark it. Put as many bolts back in the same holes as they came when removing parts. Take pictures of everything. Remove the oil galley plugs and or have the block dunked/cleaned at an engine building outfit. Buy a new set of rings for the pistons and a tube of hondabond #7 or hondabond #4 or yamahabond #7 to re-seal the cases.
You will need a torque wrench capable of 5ft/lbs - 50 ft/lbs, a ring compressor, loctite, a shop manual, and case sealant. If you need another good used crankshaft you are looking at around 800.00 to do the whole engine. If you need it assembled it will cost an additional 1K
Not saying you can't do this... anyone can do anything, within reason, with effort.
Below is a pic of rods. The left rod is burned. That is how I imagine yours looks.
 

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Your rod has to be replaced. This means the head has to come off. The shop service manual has all the details on how to complete this job.
 

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Discussion Starter #87
The rod is not discolored at all. Looks just like the others. Do the bearings just kinda click together like a puzzle piece around the crank?? With my current situation, finances, time etc i am going to try to just replace the bearings , clean up the best i can and say a prayer! If i get lucky and it works great. If not im right back where i am now. I will prob go ahead and do all the rod bearings and hope for the best.
 

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You will not be successful with that rod. It is toast/junk. I would even say the crank is toast as well. I overlooked the spun cap you showed. It needs to be as smooth as a babies ass.
 

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Take a pic of the rod cap, with the bearing removed. Also, take a pic of the rod bearing, where the tang is. Is the tang gone/removed?
 

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Discussion Starter #90
Even though it looks exactly like the others its no good? All of the surfaces in the pics look "scratched" but there are no scratches on any of it. All the surfaces cap, crank are all smooth. If just replacing the bearings will not work i guess i have a gen 2 paper weight. I would have to buy parts from a known source or new (which would be very costly) and the bike isnt worth that. Like i said i dont even know if i like the bike. Ive ridden it a total of about 4 hrs and the engine is out. I am beginning to hate it at this point. If i cant fix it inexpensively ill just put a used engine in it.
 

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The rod cap picture you posted was not smooth. The bearing's backside picture you posted had galling. Look for the missing tang. Here is a closeup pic. See where there is a cutout in the rod, like a square? The bearing/insert has a protruding tang on it. If the tangs are gone, the bearing spun. From the galling on the backside of your bearing it looks to have spun.
The lower pic's are yours and the upper pic is mine showing the tang in the bearing. The third pic shows the back side of the bearing and material removed from spinning.
 

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That cap can be re-used. In a race bike I would replace. To make that repair you would need to run a brake hone in the rod, with the cap on and tightened down, with brake hone compound. It would be a shade tree mechanic job, but I think it would work. You might be able to had sand the cap and rod with 400 grit paper. Most of that rod is embedded material from the bearing. Buy 2 new bearing shells with the thickest inserts and 2 with the next size down.
What does the #3 rod look like? They are the 2 that go first.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
You were correct the cap does have some scratches after running my fingernail across it. Here is a pic of #3 rod cap and half the bearing. I see the tang on this one. There are some numbers on the #3 bearing but cant make them all out. Still dont see any color? Not 100% sure what you mean by inserts? Have to talk to me like im a dummy lol. Any recommendation where to get bearings, gaskets etc? Still would have to pull the head to hone the rod i assume? At that point with what happened with this engine i may be better off parting this one and picking up a used one. I totally agree that this thing should be broken completely down and gone through to do it the right way. But never have done this before if i spend all the money on parts and make a mistake, the first time i fire the engine could spell disaster. Then im right back in the same boat after all that money and time. Any idea what i could sell the parts from this engine for? (The good ones lol) cases/head/trans etc?
 

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A used motor is a crapshoot and about 1500. You could remove the cams so the timing chain is loose, then remove the crank to get to the rod. Not sure how much room there is if you rotate the crank away from the rod, pull the rod down, then work on it. Not ideal for sure. The insert is reffered to the bearing. They call them inserts/bearings/bearing shells. Parts can be bought from partzilla and eBay.
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Just wanted to thank you again! Starting to get it somewhat. Is there any way to tell if the crank is damaged? I have read exactly what you said about a used crank. Maybe i should try to source a used crank, sand or hone the rod as you suggested and put new rod bearings and THEN hope for the best. Im just so leary about buying used parts anymore after this as well as others i know. And other than the obvious "looking" messed up how can you tell if a crank is any good? Michael was saying with a used crank you have to measure everything. Again something i dont know how to do. Can you just put in a used crank with new bearings and it be ok? Any of you guys selling one????? Lol
 

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The crank has letters on each journal. The case has numbers or letters. There is a matrix in the manual to determine the insert thickness. Then you assemble, but use plastigauge. Torque down, then take apart and look how much the plastigauge flattened out. Then compare to a value. Download the service manual and read the right section. Going back and forth here is not as effective as reading the manual. I would just remove the head and change the rod. It will cost you another 80.00 for a new head gasket, but it will be right.
 

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Thanks for chiming in Rocksalt. Everything he said is correct. I was going to post about using prastigauge to measure and the bearing being a snap-in fit. But Rocksalt did a good job talking about everything so I don't need to. Follow his advice!
 

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Discussion Starter #100
Thanks again guys. I do have a copy of the manual thanks to sky! I will start reading up on it to try and educate myself. So verdict still stands to look for a used crank? And go ahead and replace that rod? Ill post back as soon as i get a chance to mess with this thing.
 
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