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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys recently picked up a 2006 with 14,000 miles. Pretty sure i got screwed. Went for a ride the other day (first one since ive had it other than quick test ride). Bike ran great. Get home and try to start it and it's dead. I know the stator is an issue with these bikes so i tested it and it passes the ohm test but not the voltage test. So i am still trying to diagnose problems and started the bike and the oil light is blinking. I burp the oil filter several times. I try the air through the crankcase breather. With the bike running the Light will stay off as long as there is pressure through the breather. As soon as it's not pressurized the light comes back on. I do this numerous times as well as burping the filter. The Light will not stop blinking. Nor will the oil level in sight glass go down. This is after numerous attempts at every thing i know to do. Oil is full. Only thing left is the oil pump correct? I assume its behind the clutch basket like some other bikes. My question is why would an oil pump go out at 14,000 miles? Is this a common issue with these bikes? I have owned more than 30 bikes in my life and never encountered this. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
The only other possible thing that I can think of that this would be is if the oil pickup was completely clogged up. Which would make no sense because I don't have any clutch slipping issues or anything like that. I know that's a pretty common issue with the 14s.
 

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OK, first things first. The oil light shouldn't ever "blink". The light will be on solid if there's no oil pressure. So, if the light is blinking, then it will be along with the FI tag in the cluster. Do you see that? Is there and service code it's alerting you for with the blinking?

Second, if you burped the filter correctly then you'll be flowing oil as it will come out of the filter area and you've just negated the pump issue and the oil pickup issue. I'm not sure why you're screwing around with the crankcase breather at all. The only thing that's for is the vent the crankcase to allow air to move in and out and the pistons pump. There's never a constant airflow through there. There's no sensors on it.

If the battery is dead, jump start the bike. That will tell you if the battery is bad/dead and will allow you to check out the charging system. You can't do a voltage test on the alternator if you can't get the engine running. You should be seeing a variable AC voltage out of the alternator of about 46 volts at 6,000rpm. That should measure about 14.5 volts DC out of the regulator. So, if you can't get the engine started, how did you do a voltage check on the stator?

Something doesn't add up here and it doesn't sound like you "got screwed". it sounds like the battery is dead and you just don't know what it's showing you.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I say i got screwed not just because of this but numerous other issues I have done with the bike then I just didn't mention. I was able to check the stator because the bike was running the other day. And it was only putting out about 10 volts. When I came out today to try to mess with a little bit more the battery was dead as a doornail. So I jumped it because I was going to start checking the charging system again. And that's when I noticed the oil light constantly blinking. And the little oil symbol on the dash is also flashing while the red light is blinking. I read about the crankcase trick by searching on this site. I didn't see any codes flashing but I'm sure there's a way to check them with this bike just like most others. I did do the clean AIR block off plates and just left that unplugged. But I read on here that that was no problem with the 1st Gen and 2nd gen bikes. If you didn't need a resistor or anything on the plug. I'll get it back up and running again as soon as I have a chance and post back what I find. I appreciate you chiming in
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Also when I burp the filter the oil wasn't blowing out very fast it was kind of trickling out. Not like I feel it should have been at the oil was "pumping". And like I said the level in a sight glass still showed full with the bike running which indicates to me that there was no oil being pumped through the motor unless I'm misunderstanding something right now
 

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Well that's good info that wasn't there in the original post! (y) The oil symbol and light. OK!

The oil pressure won't develop to full pressure until the engine is running. I wouldn't be too concerned out the trickle out of the filter seal if the motor wasn't pumping anything. That's more like just draining out of it. Did you prefill the filter before you put it on? Is the bike on the sidestand? Leaning it over will help prime the oil pump. It is on the left side of the motor right behind the water pump. The driveshaft for it is the same for both the water pump and the oil pump. It's behind the clutch basket, but the pumps are on the left side so leaning the bike that way can help prime the pump if it's that dry. That would be the only thing that I could think of with your scenario. The pickup screen would really have to be really blocked for that to happen and that's not normal at all. The pump loosing it's prime is more common than anything else, but that's what burping the filter is meant to resolve.

I'll have to look back in time at the posts about the crank breather. That doesn't jog any memories and I'm confused as to what that would be used for.

If you were only seeing 10 volts AC out of the alternator, then that would indicate the stator is bad. That's assuming that you weren't measuring 10 volts DC at the battery. If that's what you're saying, than you need to try figuring out if it's the stator or the regulator (or both) that is faulty. Jumping the battery will allow you to troubleshoot the oil pressure issue first thing. If you can keep the engine running then you can worry about the charging system next.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thank you very much for trying to help me figure this thing out. I tried burping the filter with the bike running and it's still just trickled out. I tried it on the side stand I tried it on the rear stand I've tried it several different ways with all the same outcome. I DID prefill the filter as well. Always do. I guess I should have mentioned the oil symbol on the dash in the first post. Whoops. That's what I thought too about to pick up screen then it would all of a sudden have to be completely blocked what to do when it's doing. Which doesn't make any sense at all I was just grasping at straws. Do I need to remove the clutch basket on this bike to replace the oil pump? I really just don't know what else to try.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
And a few days ago when I was testing the stator I was testing it right at the stator with it unplugged. And it was right at 10 volts. Which like you said shows that the stator is faulty. And everything I've always known about the stator and regulator is that you replace them both at the same time kind of like chain and sprockets unless I've always been wrong about that
 

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Thank you very much for trying to help me figure this thing out. I tried burping the filter with the bike running and it's still just trickled out. I tried it on the side stand I tried it on the rear stand I've tried it several different ways with all the same outcome. I DID prefill the filter as well. Always do. I guess I should have mentioned the oil symbol on the dash in the first post. Whoops. That's what I thought too about to pick up screen then it would all of a sudden have to be completely blocked what to do when it's doing. Which doesn't make any sense at all I was just grasping at straws. Do I need to remove the clutch basket on this bike to replace the oil pump? I really just don't know what else to try.
Well, the oil pump is pretty darn foolproof. It's just an eccentric gear. The only real failures on it would be the drive shaft breaking off or the gear is so worn out it's not sealing properly. That would drop the the pressure some, not it should still pump. If the shaft was broken then the water pump wouldn't be working either. You don't have to remove the clutch to replace just the pump part. If that shaft was broken then you've have to take the basket out to remove the shaft.

The drive shaft for the oil/water pump is chain driven. The chain comes off the transmission input shaft behind the clutch basket. That turns the chain down to the oil pump shaft. The shaft goes through the lower crankcase half over to and through the eccentric oil pump to end up at the water pump rotor. It's tricky to get the whole shaft out, but you can pull the water pump housing to get to the eccentric oil pump. I've got a picture of that drive system somewhere. It's a little hard to explain in text.

How it Works

And a few days ago when I was testing the stator I was testing it right at the stator with it unplugged. And it was right at 10 volts. Which like you said shows that the stator is faulty. And everything I've always known about the stator and regulator is that you replace them both at the same time kind of like chain and sprockets unless I've always been wrong about that
That's pretty obvious the stator went bad then. It's good practice to replace both, but not an absolute rule. Chain and sprockets mechanically wear together over time. Electrical components don't. The problem is you don't really know what caused the stator coil windings to fail. If that was caused by a flaky regulator then that will cause a new stator to fail also. If it was just the stator that is showing it's age then it won't affect the regulator. I've had a regulator go bad before without touching the stator. That was because it overheated. I replaced the regulator without touching the stator. I've seen stators fail also and the regulator tests fine. So it's one of those "safer than sorry" deals. If the regulator passes the resistance checks then you can reuse it. It's up to you on the size of your wallet and how much of a gambler you are. I'd chance it myself if the stator damage was obvious like a burned coil winding.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I know this is probably out of the question but in all my searching it seems that the ZX10 is pretty finicky when it comes to oil filters. The two oil filters I've been trying is it STP motorcycle oil filter and a Purolator car oil filter. They're both doing the same thing. So I wouldn't think it was the oil filter but do you think there is a remote possibility that throwing a OEM filter on there with solve this? I had already pulled the clutch cover off this afternoon after discovering all this. And the gasket that was on there was some homemade gasket there was way wider than it should have been. I really don't think that that would have anything to do with it but again I'm just grasping at straws. Is there any way to see if that chain has come loose or broke off the oil pump shaft other than pulling the clutch basket out? It never overheated when I wrote it the other day. But I don't want to let it run that long right now with this oil pump issue. Until I figure this out.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
not sure if you're familiar with the ZX-14 or if they are set up like the 10. I have a street ZX-14 and a drag race zx-14r. I've done the oil pump cover mod on those bikes which required removing the entire clutch basket. I'm not a dumb person at least I don't think so lol which is why this is just drive me insane that I can't figure this out
 

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not sure if this tells you anything but I pulled the sensor out cleaned it put it back on. Threw the clutch cover back on. Started the bike up the oil symbol and the light was flashing. Then it went off for a couple of seconds started flashing again. Then went off for a couple of seconds. And started flashing again and stayed on. Tried to burp the filter again with the bike running and oil is coming out but it's not pouring out like I think it should. I'm sure it's supposed to do this. But with the key on and the kill switch off the oil symbol in the light are constantly flashing. Just like it does with the bike running. I just don't know much about this thing. I just got it
 

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I know this is probably out of the question but in all my searching it seems that the ZX10 is pretty finicky when it comes to oil filters. The two oil filters I've been trying is it STP motorcycle oil filter and a Purolator car oil filter. They're both doing the same thing. So I wouldn't think it was the oil filter but do you think there is a remote possibility that throwing a OEM filter on there with solve this? I had already pulled the clutch cover off this afternoon after discovering all this. And the gasket that was on there was some homemade gasket there was way wider than it should have been. I really don't think that that would have anything to do with it but again I'm just grasping at straws. Is there any way to see if that chain has come loose or broke off the oil pump shaft other than pulling the clutch basket out? It never overheated when I wrote it the other day. But I don't want to let it run that long right now with this oil pump issue. Until I figure this out.
Back when I had my Gen 2 and Gen 3, I used the Purolator PL14610 filters. They were the longer version of the PL14612 filter that it cross-referenced to. Holds more oil and gives more filtering material in the longer version. No issues at all. I switched back to OEM filters for my Gen 4 and 5 because of the increased oil pressure for those motors from the factory. That, and I increased oil pressure on my Gen 4 by shimming the spring in the oil pressure relief valve after spinning a journal bearing. No, I don't think the filter would cause your issue here.

You can see and touch the chain for the shaft below the basket. This is a pic of my Gen 4, but it should be similar. The chain is fairly loose on it even wit hthe guide.

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These bikes are somewhat prone to the pump loosing it's prime since it's a dry sump. I'm still leaning towards that as your issue here. I wouldn't want to run the motor for more than about 10 secs with the pressure light on. If you've done that a couple times, then it's time to take more drastic measures. I'd pull the water pump and look at it to see if there's any residual oil in the pump or if it's bone dry. I might add a little oil to it just to keep it lubricated and put a little oil in the pickup port. Seal it back up and try starting it again. It's cumbersome.

And no, I get the impression that you're not dumb! Just keep going through it all like you're doing.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just wanted to say thanks again for all your help trying to get this thing sorted out. I really appreciate it. I've already run it longer and I am comfortable with trying to figure this thing out. I have a really big day at work tomorrow so I won't have time to work on it for a couple of days. When I do I'll go ahead and pull the water pump and see what I can see. This might be a dumb question LOL because I've never pulled a water pump off of either bike before. But it just unBolts from the left side I'm assuming? I tried to look at a microfiche to give me some guidance but little tough to figure out on this one.
 

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Just wanted to say thanks again for all your help trying to get this thing sorted out. I really appreciate it. I've already run it longer and I am comfortable with trying to figure this thing out. I have a really big day at work tomorrow so I won't have time to work on it for a couple of days. When I do I'll go ahead and pull the water pump and see what I can see. This might be a dumb question LOL because I've never pulled a water pump off of either bike before. But it just unBolts from the left side I'm assuming? I tried to look at a microfiche to give me some guidance but little tough to figure out on this one.
I assumed you were referencing the Service Manual, not just the fiche. You have that? If not, download it here...

Service Manual Thread

And I may have over-simplified it a bit. Or thinking about one of my other ones I've had. :p After looking at the manual again, there's only 4 steps. But the oil pump is internal to the case behind the clutch and the same shaft comes out the case to the drive the water pump. So pulling the water pump won't give direct access to the oil pump like I made it sound.

Download the manual and look at page 7-12. Steps and pics to help you. Clutch has to come out though to get to the housing on that model.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Awesome thanks for the link!!! Definitely not trying to question you at all hope you dont take it that way. But are you certain the 06 is chain driven like the pic above? I just went out and pulled the clutch cover again and there is no chain at all behind the basket. I can see the oil pump gear so I tried to turn it with a screwdriver to see if it would move and it wouldnt budge, It looks like it is gear driven (like the zx14). I will pull the basket when I get a chance in a couple of days and report back what I find. Is there anything that I should do to the oil pump once I get the basket out? Put some oil as directed above??
 

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Discussion Starter #17
For the heck of it before I remove the basket I am going to take the oil pressure switch from my zx14 and try it on the 10. I checked and the part numbers are the same. Because I am like you in that I am not sure what could have failed in the oil pump. Unless its something very obvious if I have to pull the basket. I will update the post along the way in hopes to figure this out and possibly help someone else that may have the same issue. Again many thanks for all the help thus far.
 

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Awesome thanks for the link!!! Definitely not trying to question you at all hope you dont take it that way. But are you certain the 06 is chain driven like the pic above? I just went out and pulled the clutch cover again and there is no chain at all behind the basket. I can see the oil pump gear so I tried to turn it with a screwdriver to see if it would move and it wouldnt budge, It looks like it is gear driven (like the zx14). I will pull the basket when I get a chance in a couple of days and report back what I find. Is there anything that I should do to the oil pump once I get the basket out? Put some oil as directed above??
Well, you should question me! You can't trust some schmuck on the Interweb like me! :cool:

No, I'm not 100% sure on the chain drive. :ROFLMAO: I was shooting from the hip on that after dealing with my Gen 4. I've owned an '06, an '09, a '12, and my '16. I get them confused sometimes! :unsure: The manual spells it out pretty clearly and the pics I posted were from the newer model with the cassette transmission. I think that's what drove the design to get the driveshaft away from that. You're right about the early model being more directly driven.

Regardless of how it's driven, I wouldn't expect you to be able to move it with the screwdriver. That's a good sign! That means it's still linked to the tranny input shaft and it's not loose. Once you get the basket out of the way, pull the cover and inspect the pump itself. Check the rotors out for the general condition of them and you can put some oil in there like I mentioned. It won't hurt anything.

Report back when you do some more investigating and have fun at work tomorrow!
 

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For the heck of it before I remove the basket I am going to take the oil pressure switch from my zx14 and try it on the 10. I checked and the part numbers are the same. Because I am like you in that I am not sure what could have failed in the oil pump. Unless its something very obvious if I have to pull the basket. I will update the post along the way in hopes to figure this out and possibly help someone else that may have the same issue. Again many thanks for all the help thus far.
Yeah, the oil pressure switch would cause the light to come on. But it wouldn't explain the oil filter burping issue. It would also not explain the oil level staying the same when running. I discounted that based on the other description. But hey, if you've got another one you can try, give it a shot! That will certainly eliminate that as a cause.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Got home earlier than expected from work so tried the other oil press switch and still the same (we both expected that though). I brought the rpms up to 2000 (first time ive done this) and the light went off. Went down to idle light back on. Did this several times with same result. I didnt leave it at 2000 to see if the light would come back on at that rpm. Didn't want to keep running it any longer than i had to. What would cause the light/pressure to go up with a little rpm?? Dont think it matters at all because this is what i run in my street and race zx14. But when i changed the oil on the zx10 i used rotella t6 synthetic 5/40. I guess im going to pull the basket to see what i see. Ill report back
 
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