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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Trying to budget what to save for next between suspension and brakes and brakes seem to be the cheaper option so that might take the win.

Just wanted some inputs before I ripped out the ABS system.

Trying to decide between the M4 monoblock or the GP4-RX's with the 320mm discs for my gen 4. The M4 look similar to the factory brembo calipers that came on the GSXR's. So a part of me is staring at them like WTF? Lol!

The GP4-RX's, are probably gonna take the win though. Love hat nickel finish, but how durable is coating? Worried about rock chips affecting the finish...

Either way? I'm getting anew brembo MC, and steel braided lines.

Just to give everyone some background. I know they're gonna be overboard either way.. I'll probably do 3-4 track days a year, but this is my main hobby and I'm taking this build more seriously than I did with my other bikes. Thanks in advance for any inputs!!!



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I did similar upgrade, and used gsxr brembos. No complaint with the caliper. The set is much lighter than our stock brakes. Power/feel advantage? not really I'll have to explain...

The stock gsxr brembo pads were terrible. Low power, and a lack of feel.

I switched the pads out to a vesrah, and have been very happy. I also added Brembo master cylinder form a 2012 ducati 1198 sp. I was running Galfer Wave rotors, 310mm size. Great power. Huge power form the first second

Last spring, Im lookign at ebay, and someone is selling the 330mm Brembo rotors from a 2016 zx10. 150.00, including shipping. I had to have them.

In all seriousness, they do not have the grab, or the instant power of the galfer wave, but the feel is so incredibly smooth, Ive learned to really enjoy them.

What I learned is:

Goodpads are most of the battle. A good caliper, with a long wearing, consumer issued pad is nothing.

I really like the round rotor and not the wave. The round rotor feels like I have more braking range, for lack of better words. The wave grabs too hard, initially.

The gp4-rx was not available when I did mine, or thats what Id have used. I believe their quality is higher than what I have. Still, no complaints.

Good news is that after spending almost 800.00, I am sure I at least equaled my concours 14 stock brakes, and maybe even bettered them..maybe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I may just save some money and do a pad and brembo t drive setup... as long as I can get over not wanting the bling factor! Lol!


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In all seriousness, I could have, and should have skipped the calipers. I know mine are not as good as the ones you are looking at, but I gained nothing except saving weight. It was almost 1lb, with both calipers added together, so fairly significant.

The brembo master cylinder was amazing. Again, I went low budget, but it was very worthwhile.

If you were to do the master cylinder and pads, I dont think you'll be able to justify the calipers, unless the bling counts for a lot...
 

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In order:

(1) Fluid
(2) Pads
(3) SS Lines

(4) Master
(5) Good rotors
(6) Calipers

In racing I'll do 1-3 first and then consider 4. If I have a specific problem like vibration then new rotors. I've never gotten to calipers since 1-5 has always done the trick.

IMHO from a budget perspective on a Gen 4, proper springs in the fork, rear shock and linkage before going beyond those first 3 brake upgrades.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
In order:

(1) Fluid
(2) Pads
(3) SS Lines

(4) Master
(5) Good rotors
(6) Calipers

In racing I'll do 1-3 first and then consider 4. If I have a specific problem like vibration then new rotors. I've never gotten to calipers since 1-5 has always done the trick.

IMHO from a budget perspective on a Gen 4, proper springs in the fork, rear shock and linkage before going beyond those brake upgrades.


Might switch to suspension parts first then! Thanks! I'll do 1-3 then see how I feel.


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Helitech the M4 are lighter than the gp4rx!after I changed the 6 M8 gp4rx bolts that hold the calipers together they were around the same weight!gp4rx look a bit nicer and are 2 piece but think M4 is 1 piece!now if you want to loose a lot more weight but they are more expensive the gp4rr are the next step mate
 

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I think with the brakes theres always a "Next" level you can improve upon. Still if you use Helitec's list, once you get past 3, its expensive, and harder to justify.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That's what's key right now, harder to justify! I think I'll do 1-3 first as listed above, then move on to some ohlins bits for the suspension as the next major purchases...


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Its funny, but brakes and suspension have a lot in common. Its a reasonable cost to go from stock to "pretty good, not bad" but if you have to have "excellent, amazing", now its going to cost you.

I believe this would make for a fairly good brake upgrade.....

The ducati panigale 1199 uses calipers with 4 30mm pistons....same as the gen 4 zx10. Actually, that 30mm caliper piston size has been used for a while. I believe the 08 zx10 used 2 31mm pistons, and 2 30mm pistons..pretty close.

If you could find a nice, used take off front master from a panigale, it would be a reasonable priced upgrade and the sizes match.

Mine is not matched so perfectly, but the performance of even an oem brembo master cylinder is a night-day difference over what we have, stock.
 

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For performance read LDH site:
ROGUE RACING Brake Product Opinion

Unlike he says, I hear from racers that billet CNC 30/34 is better than GP4-RX, who knows.
I'm saving for these: www.omniaracing.net/en/brembo-racin...ial-calipers-sxdx-with-brake-pads-p-4727.html

There is new GP4-RS out there, but doubt that it's any better than M4.

GSXR OEM Brembos from eBay isn't bad option at all, I think they are bit better than Gen4 stock and pad wear is nicely even. They can handle trackday without problem when 1/3 pad left.
My Busa has these gold color OEM Brembos. When bike was new I abused these calipers on trackday pretty wild (265kg bike!)
OEM brake fluid boiled when 1/3 pad left. Changed fluid to Motul 660 and now with 1/4 pad left heat caused pistons (think aluminum) to stick.

P.S. Popular mod in Germany is to swap to DLC-coated steel pistons, many times lower thermal trasfer compared to aluminum, expanding less with heat, low friction surface.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the inputs everyone. Looks like I'm going back to the drawing boards for the brake plan portion of the bike... which is fine, I really don't feel like tearing the bike back down to remove all the ABS parts!


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Its not 2 bad ditching the abs and the difference in front brake feel is night and day!even after braided lines connected to the abs,Brembo rcs19 and gp4rx it still had a spongy front brake!I by passed the abs unit running braided lines direct from m/c to the front calipers and presto!beautiful firm brake feel!disconnect all oem lines and remove them!plug the lines coming from the abs unit and run your your braided lines direct from both m/c to calipers!you can remove the back abs line that uses a M6 bolt to anchor it to the inner of the swingarm!do not attempt to undo any of the abs lines without a C spanner or pipe spanner whateva you call it!and even then you will prolly have to use vice grips as the oem brake line fittings are soft as baby poo and will round off so easy!!!
 

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Any warning lights when the abs was by passed, or is it all "ok"?

The oem gsxr brembos are pretty cheap, too on ebay.

They really are a good caliper, but running stock pads, you would never know it. Even that is hard to complain about. I dont see my Vesrah pads lasting 15,000 miles like oem's would.

You guys would be surprised to feel how little difference there was in going from the original 310mm discs to the 330mm discs.

With everything else being the same, and break in time being similar, it was a tiny difference.

Lets say we had to offer numbers. The pads had to be worth a 40-50% improvement. The rotor change, from stock 310mm Kawasaki to 330mm oem brembo, maybe 5%...and thats being generous. If you tried the bike, I would have had to mention it for soemoen to notice.

The galfer 310mm rotors bite hard, and are extremely powerful. Not especially nice to use. They occasionally feel like theres a pulse feeling (low speed) and the initial bite is too much, exaggerated. I wanted finer control, and the round rotors have that.
 

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I tried to answer a pm, but the box was full. It was a question abotu the 330mm rotors.

In theory, the larger 330 mm rotor has more power than the 310mm version. Better leverage, and better heat dissipation...in theory....

In reality, if there is a difference, I fly out and kiss your butt.

I like the look, and I paid 150.00, including shipping, for used zx10 rotors from a brand new 2016 machine.. If I had paid 650.00, or whatever they are retail, I would be crying real tears.

They are smooth, and very nice, but if its better than stock, you would need track conditions to show it, and maybe even then it would not show.

I would avoid galfer waves, but otherwise, stock is plenty good enough. The galfers are not very good. Lousy feel, and touchy. Thats why brembo makes theirs round. Im convinced.

As far as Galfer being lighter, I would have to ask, "Lighter than what?" My brembo rotor is a full 20mm larger, and weighs within 1 oz of the galfer wave. Compared to stock, the 310mm galfer is slightly heavier than the stock part....its within a few grams, but still..nothing significant.

Aslo, the 330mm diameter makes the caliper removal a challenge. It fits , but barely.

If you ever found a deal on some, like I did, grab them. They are smooth, beautiful and a really nice rotor. But not for 650.00

I think brakes are like suspension. Its easy and economical to get to the 90% performance level. If you have to have the full 100%, now you have to pay.
 

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You won't any warning lights as long as you leave all oem wiring connected to the abs unit!I left my unit in but removed all oem lines!prolly should remove the abs unit but I don't really want to have to find a solution to the warning lights coming on!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
For all the racers out there that buy a KIT ECU and harness, you can turn ABS off. I'm assuming that means removing everything then turning off the function in the ECU altogether since I don't really know anyone that would race an ABS enabled bike


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For all the racers out there that buy a KIT ECU and harness, you can turn ABS off. I'm assuming that means removing everything then turning off the function in the ECU altogether
Kit ECU does not support ABS, no setting present in kit ECU configuration software, no wires present in genuine kit harness.
 

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I tried Brembo GSXR 1000 callipers from an L2 on my K5, using the same SBS Sintered compound pads and found no discernable improvement on the track compared to the stock Tokicos.

On most bikes, the main braking limitation is in the master cylinder (especially on all Suzukis, and even after the recall work has been carried out).

This Gen 4 ZX10R I have is not so bad (earlier gens like gen 1 had crap master cylinders), but the feel at the lever for me is not quite there compared to the after market Brembo master cylinder I bought for the GSXR.

I already have braided lines on the 10, so I'll be transferring the GSXR Brembo MC over to this bike as the callipers are almost the same (they use the same pads) so I will get that nice hard feel at the lever back.
 
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