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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So as most of you know I wrecked on a friends bike on Sept. 24th. Just received a ticket in the mail for $123.00 and it all it said the infraction was is "speed too fast". All I know about the accident was that I was found 100ft away from the bike, I understand that this may indicate speed. Just wondering if you guys think I should just pay it or take it to court. I should mention there was no witnesses around during the accident.

Thanks for your help guys.
 

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how can they assume you were speeding if nobody witnessed anything?. hopefully you didnt mention anything about speeding when this incident happened. you should fight it.
 

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As a police officer i can say , by measuring skid marks, drag/grooves in the road and several other things, we can actually get your speed within 1-2mph.

So if I were you i would pay the ticket, because if you go to court they will begin to explain how they measured and when they calibrated the machines and how they came about the meausement and how accurate the measurements are and how well past measurements have held up in court.

any questions or anything i can do PM me
 

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I realize law enforcement officers are trained to evaluate accident scenes but its still a guesstimation on the officers part so atleast present your case to the judge as best you can and see what happens.

BD
 

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Discussion Starter #5
10roller said:
how can they assume you were speeding if nobody witnessed anything?. hopefully you didnt mention anything about speeding when this incident happened. you should fight it.

I was unconcious at the scene and didnt wake up untill about an hr. at the hospital so didnt tell anyone anything. I do know the speed limit on the road I was on was 40mph.
 

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Discussion Starter #7

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Big Daddy said:
I realize law enforcement officers are trained to evaluate accident scenes but its still a guesstimation on the officers part so atleast present your case to the judge as best you can and see what happens.

BD


:iamwithst
 

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zx7rydr said:
over a $123 ticket...:dontknow:
Could easily be worth paying $250.00 or whatever to avoid the points and insurance rate hikes.

Some traffic lawyers charge prices similar to ticket prices- I would try to go off word of mouth when choosing a ticket lawyer though.

You don't need to pay them to say, "no contest" and have a decent judge with-hold judification (pts.) So make sure they plan to do more than just that if you get one.

If it comes down to details a good attorney knows where the weaknesses are in the "evidence."

They had to re-focus police around here to write tickets properly once a news team did a story on how many people were getting off on technicalities related to writing the ticket poorly.
 

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FYI...if an accident is involved, traffic school will not reduce the problem with your insurance company. I always recommend the traffic school option for people I write citations to. Unfortunately with accidents, the insurance company only looks at that fact, especially if it was a single vehicle accident.

Good luck
 

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smalls23 said:
As a police officer i can say , by measuring skid marks, drag/grooves in the road and several other things, we can actually get your speed within 1-2mph.

So if I were you i would pay the ticket, because if you go to court they will begin to explain how they measured and when they calibrated the machines and how they came about the meausement and how accurate the measurements are and how well past measurements have held up in court.

any questions or anything i can do PM me

Im unsure of accidents, but with speeding tickets im good on fighting. Personally i fight everyticket i get and yea, he is right they can tell how fast you are going, but what is the likely hood that they are going to bring that evidence/documentation to court they need? They wont because they dont think you will ask. If the officer says something he needs the documentation to back it up. All those machines need to be calibrated and documented all the figuring isnt done in his head its all on paper or done in that machine. After the prosecution examines the witness, inwhich you never object to any of his question. Ask the officer for the documents and calibration of these machines. If they dont have it and want to go get it then obejct. Dont let them go get it, they are unprepaired and should know they should have PROPER FOUNDATION in presenting evidence and it should be in court with them. Also Dont admit to anything, or say i wasnt going that fast, you have just admited to speeding and the charges will be changed. All you have to say is you rather not testify against yourself. Personally i would fight it. Good luck and if you got any question just ask. There is also some case law you can get and need in prepairing for this fight.
 

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in cali we have something called TBD (trial by declaration), which is basically a trial by mail. i dont even have to step foot into a courthouse. maybe washington has something similar to this.
 

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smalls23 said:
As a police officer i can say , by measuring skid marks, drag/grooves in the road and several other things, we can actually get your speed within 1-2mph.
I hope you don't really believe that.

Not that anybody can do anything about it, but from an engineering perspective, no way can they be that accurate. You'd have to know A LOT of physics about the SPECIFIC entry conditions of THAT scenario to calculate a reasonable ending result. No way. Its a sketchy guess at best, just like a weather forcast. Meteorologists can't be sure about the weather for the same reasons. They didn't know enough about the entry conditions.

If someone makes a claim, the burden of proof lies on them. Unfortunately, in cases like this there isn't a cost effective way to fight sketchy science, when the power of the state is behind it. It would cost more to fight it than to reinvestigate the forensics and put holes in it.


And by the way... thanks for doing your job out there for us every day. :ayyy:
 

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ShortBus said:
I hope you don't really believe that.

Not that anybody can do anything about it, but from an engineering perspective, no way can they be that accurate. You'd have to know A LOT of physics about the SPECIFIC entry conditions of THAT scenario to calculate a reasonable ending result. No way. Its a sketchy guess at best, just like a weather forcast. Meteorologists can't be sure about the weather for the same reasons. They didn't know enough about the entry conditions.

If someone makes a claim, the burden of proof lies on them. Unfortunately, in cases like this there isn't a cost effective way to fight sketchy science, when the power of the state is behind it. It would cost more to fight it than to reinvestigate the forensics and put holes in it.


And by the way... thanks for doing your job out there for us every day. :ayyy:

yea, i dunno if it is that accurate, but i know it is close. Now with a car it is easier for them to estimate speed by the skid marks. Bastereds have been doing it for along time and there is case law to support it so the judge will take it as fact no if and or but. Now with a bike i am really unsure of because of so many factors involved in a bike slide. I dunno of anycase law involving bikes, but im sure they exsist because of the vast recks and people trying to fight them. But anyway we look at it no local judge will change case law and will do what they feel is right. Thats why i would fight it. It is there job to prove it and your job to make them.
 

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BigDally said:
Well, riddle me this..... What do you have to loose by going to court and "trying" to fight it?

D
:+1: I have been to court for 4 tickets total, I got out of two of them just because the officer did not show up. It is painless and it would be worth it to keep the points off your insurance. That little ticket could lead to rates sky-rocketing!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
smalls23 said:
As a police officer i can say , by measuring skid marks, drag/grooves in the road and several other things, we can actually get your speed within 1-2mph.

So if I were you i would pay the ticket, because if you go to court they will begin to explain how they measured and when they calibrated the machines and how they came about the meausement and how accurate the measurements are and how well past measurements have held up in court.

any questions or anything i can do PM me
And another problem is that the ticket only says "speed too fast" it doesnt say how fast. Ok so say I was 100ft from the bike, the bike has frame sliders so wouldnt that make less friction on the ground making the bike slide further? Oh not to mention the lack of damage on the bike. None of the fairings even cracked just road rashed. Now what do you think.
 

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BigDally said:
Well, riddle me this..... What do you have to loose by going to court and "trying" to fight it?

D
:+1:
nothing really. bench trial is the way to go
 
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