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Discussion Starter #1
Hey there ya'll... need a favor if anyone is willing or able. I'm going to give a whack at changing the map strategy on my turbo 10, and also setting up a similar turbo 14 on a FuelTech ecu. It would save me a metric buttload of time if anyone was willing to share the stock (or close to stock) base fuel map and base timing map for each bike (6th gear map by itself would be fine). I used to have them for the 10r, but I think that computer actually got blown up.

So, anyone willing to help out? I'd ship some beer in recompense, fo sho! I'll follow up with pictures and results if anyone wants!
 

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Doesn't Flash Tune still let you see maps? You just can't change or flash without a license? I don't know I haven't looked in a long time.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sadly, I don't have that sort of internet access... just cruising with my phone. I'll DL them and slide it to my laptop. PITA, I know... but nothing good is ever easy, it seems.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
To clarify (and bump): I don't have access to the FTEcu or Woolich software... so I can't copy from there.

I'm want to try and build a hybrid Alpha-N/Speed Density mapping system like the OEM does, but for turbo bikes, from scratch. The ECU's I'm using should allow me to to run speed density map for under 10-15% tps, and another trim map for kPa above 100. Using a pure Speed Density strategy is working, but crudely... there are a couple little holes/situations in the map that are very difficult to tune around (namely high RPM, low throttle position areas...). If I can get the stock timing and fuel maps for TPS vs RPM & IAP vs RPM (and the blend point) I can mimic those and build positive pressure tables around that.... it would save me an incredible amount of time to have a good starting point like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
A gen 2/3 would be better... motor is pretty much stock aside from the snail.... same with the ZX14. I'll shoot you that email, but I may be able to tap a friend down at the dealership that uses FT stuff and see if he can help... lemmie run that by him after work today.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Dude, that's awesome! I'm curious where it starts the blend from IAP to TPS, but I can look at some old logs and see where it obliterates intake vacuum... I'm guessing around 10% TPS. It's interesting that they dont do a blend map for timing. Are those field values in .0001/sec pulsewidth, do you think? That's just academic, but I'm curious. :)

Any chance you have that for a 2007 ZX14? :)
 

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I believe IAP to TPS is some difference in map intake vs atmosphere so IAP could be any tps value up to a point. You would need to be prudent on injector duty cycle vs different injectors. I am sure they are not linear in flow. I added some 620cc injectors to run e85 and a 120 shot of nitrous. The cell values need as much as 20% in some areas and -13% in others running e85 at e82. It may be the enrichment portion of the fueling, never figured it out.
I have not figured out the injector numbers. They could be missing a decimal from the developer that cracked the bin. In my case I did not need to modify the bin due to powercommander v. It should not matter in your case on the fueling. Those numbers can be converted mathematically once you establish it's ratio compared to your ecu.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I agree with all of that. :) The heavy E fuels can do some fun things to the timing requirements away from high cylinder pressures... especially in the transient areas. Combine that with various accel enrichments and/or decel cuts and it can get murky real fast. At that point I'm usually just tuning it so it feels good on the bike and don't pay too much attention to the instrumentation.

The timing is really the big hurdle, as it's a lot more, err, time consuming to tune that in cell by cell. Interesting on the IAP/TPS switchover.... I always thought it was a certain % of tps that started the blend.... I can easily run an additional baro sensor (or just have it sample baro at startup), but I don't think either the Fuel Tech or the MS3Pro have tables for blending the maps based on comparative baro.... I'll have to look into that. That being said, I've noticed that a certain amount of TPS usually brings it right up to atmosphere pretty consistently, so it may be a non-issue.... especially for the type of racing we do. Close enough works for horseshoes and hand grenades, good enough for racing too.
 

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What I found interesting what the ZX10R's ignition map is very conservative. look at all the maps of the various GSXR and BUSA motors. I am currently running increased timing, on par with the GSXR 1000.

May be you could install knock sensors, and log. Or find some timing strategies already in place for your build.
 

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In woolich now they have it all locked down. I'm not sure if its because I've used all 3 of my keys on gen 4's but I can't pull up and view anything else anymore but gen 4 stuff. And looks like rocksalt already gave you gen 4 stuff. I thought I remember Anthony talking about woolich switches over to TPS at 10% throttle but I could very much be making that up and I wouldn't bet $.25 on that statement being true lol. If you're bored I started (before working from home for the past bit) listening to woolich and anthony's youtube channel on the way to work to try and pick up anything new I didn't know. Think in one of those videos it talks about the blending a bit but not in very much detail and I can't remember what video, it might have been an autotune video.

That seems like crazy timing on those gsxr though. In my pump gas flash before I went with a thinner headgasket and decked head I was in the middle between euro timing and the k8 timing you showed. I lowered timing back down when I did the headwork for pump gas. I hope to get on the dyno this spring with some c85 and see what it really likes and where it stops making power.

If there is other free software I can download to help spaz let me know, I'd be down to help how I can.


That looked like one of the better and cheaper ways to listen to knock. If I was going to try and stick to pump gas and try and push the tune I'd pick that up.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What I found interesting what the ZX10R's ignition map is very conservative. look at all the maps of the various GSXR and BUSA motors. I am currently running increased timing, on par with the GSXR 1000.

May be you could install knock sensors, and log. Or find some timing strategies already in place for your build.
I believe I remember Brock talking a bit about how on-point suzuki was with their timing, or rather how little you advance it and make gains compared to other manufacturers.

Knock sensors will be going on some builds when I can, but I like that nice, OEM starting point for timing. Seeing as how I throw boost at everything, Kawasaki's conservative base timing across its various platforms has actually been kinda helpful... In most cases I pull very little timing out, if any at all (depending on the fuel). As crazy as it sounds Fuel Tech has just about everything BUT knock control, so that won't help a couple builds I'm doing right now.... but with C16 in the tank I'll very very likely start seeing performance drop on the dyno long before I run into knock, and I like to be very conservative on the tuning as we are wide open for miles at a time. Truth be told, I haven't figured out how to really hook up more than 250ish horsepower on the kind of surface we had last year, so I have a huge margin of safety to tune in with turbos/engines capable of 450+ HP. Honestly, If I can get 350 HP to hook up with the partially streamlined bikes they'll be waaaaaayyyyy into record territory. If I could get 300 to hook up on the unfaired bikes they would do the same. TL;DR: I don't have to chase a lot of HP with timing, so I can play it safe for now. :) When I get to that point, though, I -will- instrument for knock & egt and see what shakes out.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
That seems like crazy timing on those gsxr though. In my pump gas flash before I went with a thinner headgasket and decked head I was in the middle between euro timing and the k8 timing you showed. I lowered timing back down when I did the headwork for pump gas. I hope to get on the dyno this spring with some c85 and see what it really likes and where it stops making power.

If there is other free software I can download to help spaz let me know, I'd be down to help how I can.


That looked like one of the better and cheaper ways to listen to knock. If I was going to try and stick to pump gas and try and push the tune I'd pick that up.
Well, if you're ever down in my neck of the woods I'll run that thing on the dyno for data all day long. :)

The PLEX unit, and recently the Phormula KS-4 unit have my attention.... I would rather have a one of those permanently mounted to the dyno, and just use whatever ECU controls are available off the dyno where possible. I think the Phormula unit will get my stimulus money, actually... it has my attention. I want the Plex V2, but the price hurts. Whatever unit it is, it needs to configure to a wide frequency range (some of these bike I'm tuning have well over 4" bores), and a 5V output for datalogging... that knows most of the cheap ones off the table. :(
 
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