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Discussion Starter #1
usually these threads are about discussing religion. well this is one of my questions for class. I thought sense there hasn't been a good religious thread battle lately this question would be good since it is becoming a bigger deal in society. Mods it this thread gets outa hands please dont delete it for atleast a few days so i can use some of the responses in my arguement, but feel free to lock it.

Here is the question and before some of you just start ranting think about what you are typing first.

From what you have learned about development, sex and gender, personality, and psychological disorders; and with the current emphasis on homosexuality (e.g., elected gay bishop, proposed gay schools in New York, an increase in gay oriented T.V., proposed gay marriages, etc.):

a) Is homosexuality a result of nature (biological) or nurture (environmental / learned)?


b) Regardless of the position of the American Psychological Association, is homosexuality actually an “accepted” psychological disorder, instead of normal behavior?
 

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Alrighty Chad..ask an ye shall recieve; AND best of luck with your assignment. I am split on this and not sure why. I want to believe that it is a genetic thing (not a "disorder") and think this way with respect to male homosexuals and the "butch" lesbians. I DO however think that women that have been through abusive relationships with men MIGHT have a tendancy to jump the fence (nurture)...and for a good reason. I can't WAIT to hear the peanut gallery chime in on this topic. Again...good luck.
 

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:popcorn: this maybe a good'n once they all see it...can you pass me a :beer:
 

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there is more :postwhore ing in here than responses....com'on BD you should be able to come up with an answer...dont make me call the hillbilly and get him to respond to this :heyyou:
 

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a. psychological (nature)
b. normal behavior

look...right and wrong, good and evil, "normal"...it's all subjective...not that I'm equating homosexuality with cannibalism, but there are cultures who see eating the flesh of the dead as a deeply religious experience...while it appalls most "normal" people it is not only accepted in some cultures but required.

I've had gay friends (male and female) since I was young from "normal" backgrounds that have been that way since they were little kids...their environment may have had some play in how comfortable they are with themselves with respect to their sexual orientation but certainly didn't play a part in it.

I'll keep it at the Cliff's Notes version...best wishes.
 

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Well, my therapist has determined that I'm a lesbian trapped the body of a man. What do you make of that? :lol:

Seriously, a friend of ours did suffer through an abusive marriage and switched teams. Now the real question would be, did she have the tendency prior or as a result of?
A couple of my friends have had their wives leave and enter a lesbian relationship and not return to the marriage. Again the question did they have the "desires" prior and that ended the marriage or did they "discover" their true selves after they left?
Now to answer your questions:

a) Their purportedly is "evidence" of a gay gene. I do know there are reported cases in the animal world of homosexual behavior among mammals of several species. It wouldn't surprise me given the complexity of our DNA that something might be "mis-wired" in some individuals, but a "gay gene", I'm not buying. Counter productive to the survival of the species. Consider this, if there was such a gene, then it's occurrence would decrease as a percentage as the population grew, because of a decrease in replication through mating and production of offspring. To me, it's a nurtured response given the current treatment by society. It's OK to be gay, even encouraged. I remember hearing or reading an article about high school aged males "experimenting" with homosexual relationships. Look at the attention heaped upon metro-sexual males by the entertainment press and media. Queer Eye for the Straight Guy ring a bell? Emasculated men everywhere you turn, on TV, magazines, movies, etc, being celebrated. Boys can't fight in the school yard anymore, they're taken to anger management classes and given anti-depressants. Maleness is being exorcised faster than the devil by a priest!

b) Again, not normal behavior based on the survival of the species. Accepted by society, yes. If the radical gays had not pushed their agenda so strongly, it might still be only tolerated today, much as it has been throughout most of Western history.
 

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a. psychological (nature)
b. normal behavior

look...right and wrong, good and evil, "normal"...it's all subjective...not that I'm equating homosexuality with cannibalism, but there are cultures who see eating the flesh of the dead as a deeply religious experience...while it appalls most "normal" people it is not only accepted in some cultures but required.

I've had gay friends (male and female) since I was young from "normal" backgrounds that have been that way since they were little kids...their environment may have had some play in how comfortable they are with themselves with respect to their sexual orientation but certainly didn't play a part in it.

I'll keep it at the Cliff's Notes version...best wishes.
:+1:

u are what u are.

I do believe that to an extent it might be the "cool" thing to do for some people now. Just to say they arent the norm. But I could be wrong.. :dontknow::dontknow:
 

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a good question, this can go back and forth. for me. really don't know and really don't care. some people go up and arm about it. they have there life and i have mine. I do believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman. my 2 cent worth.
 

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Awwww....now you got me started!

This is definately a slippery slope. While you all (general term) are trying to debate nature/nurture in terms of science so that it can be explained. I think it is an easy debate/answer.

I feel it is unnatural. It goes against God, man, and biology. Therefore, it must be nurture. My reasons for thinking this way? I will put forth the following:
For science; For the sake of argument, most creatures have 2 genders. Without these 2, totally different, genders having intercourse, then there would be NO continuance of a species. This is biology, therefore, since biology enforces offspring and the having of babies to continue a species, then it must not be biological.
For religion; Sodom and Gomorrah. Enough said.
For man's law; acts of sodomy are punishable by law...even if it is with your spouse.

So, if God's law, man's law, and biology all go against something, I think that is pretty convincing proof that it is not natural.

So why is it done? Biology...before a young person has the emotional maturity to handle all of the thoughts, changes, and hormones in their body, strange thoughts occur? If they are entertained with acceptance, does it becomes OK? It becomes part of culture. For example, how many people feel that it is OK for you to slap your parents? Of those, how many have slapped their spouses? Is it OK or not? Some cultures feel it is OK to be physical while others don't. If the urge to slap is accepted, it becomes normal, whether it is wrong or not.

My .02
 

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:+1:

u are what u are.

I do believe that to an extent it might be the "cool" thing to do for some people now. Just to say they arent the norm. But I could be wrong.. :dontknow::dontknow:
:+2: i agree, seems like noone was gay and now all of the sudden theres an outbreak or an epidmic :spit: just seems like people are doing it just to be different and stand out :dontknow:
 

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My $0.02. IMO, Like most of you said, it's nutured by society.

The whole thing with women in bad relationships. Some men can be abusive and all a woman needs is someone to care for her, which she can find in another female, because of their docile nature. Some prefer the nice easy going ways of females than the highly competitive testosterone filled ways of the male.

Also with the recent "coming out of the closet" thing with other people who feel that they are another trapped in the opposite body(mistake in the DNA perhaps), a chain reaction occured. Some could very well truly feel that way and decide they should share their feelings because now they know they are not alone, and others could "come out" due to the sole purpose of trying to fit in, knowing that more attention is being increasingly focused on these people. Purely conformist, yet another trait of the human nature, trying to fit in. Which is Ironic because the "In" thing to do is "stand out" and be "unique." Another piece that could fit in somewhere, is that it could be our instincts. Trying to get the most attention out of people to try and be the alpha whatever and score the most everything, except that people have gotten so deep into it, that they either subconsiously lost sight of main goal and are competing for nothing really except just to win, and/or have gotten to the point where they really think they are gay.

That if everyone let it be, the so called "gay gene" genetic mutation wouldn't exist due to Charles Darwin's theory of Natural Selection as others implied. It shouldn't even exist today. But it has become such a big deal that now even humans are digging the hole deeper and deeper by finding ways to reproduce unnaturally and f*cking up the whole balance of things. Adam and Eve is the way god intended for things to be, not Adam and Steve. I mean I don't have a problem with gays and lesbo's really, but everyone's making such a huge damn deal about it all, it's fcuking things up. Personally, I really don't think they should get married at all... It's holy matrimony. Big emphasis on the HOLY. That's why we have Civil Unions. It's basically the same thing, except out of religion. It should only go as far as promise rings, never wedding bands.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Here are some of the fellow students responses:

1. At first I did not think people could be born homosexual, but there is evidence that nature plays a role in the development of homosexuality. Studies have shown that the tiny portion of the hypothalamus is two or three time larger in heterosexual men/homosexual women than in homosexual men/heterosexual women. This region is where neurons grow that is possibly linked to the levels of testosterone. A larger region has more surviving neurons. This leaves testosterone levels low in male fetuses that become gay and female fetuses that become lesbian. There is also the conditions adrenogenital syndrome and androgen insensitivity syndrome. Females are born with genitals that resemble that of males and develop masculine behavior. The males are born with genitals that resemble that of females and their bodies ignore any testosterone. I believe that this leads to confusion in the gender-role learning process. Someone with one of the conditions stated above would not say “I am a boy so I should learn the kinds of things boys do”. They would more like think, “I am a boy but I feel like a girl”.
I think that homosexuality is an accepted psychological disorder. It is not normal behavior to go against the laws of nature. You cannot reproduce with two people of the same sex. There is not convenient way to have sexual intercourse with people of the same sex.

2. I believe that homosexuality is a result of nuture(enviromental/learned), due to the fact that at the age of two and three a child may then recognize him/her sex. Also between these ages a child may also recognize the gender of another person. In saying this I believe that homosexuality begins at a young age. According to the term "autonomy" which is having personal control of actions, and putting it in relation with "sense of control", there may be an increase in the childs independence to "exhibit". If at a young age all he/she may see is "mommy and mommy" together then of course that is normal, as well as learned by the child thats ok.


Regardless of the position of American Psychological Association, I believe that homosexuality is an "accepted" psychological disorder, instead of normal behavior. If homosexuality was normal behavior then some parents wouldn't disown their children after finding out that there gay, or the media giving elected gay bishops more attention due to the fact that they are gay.
 

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Awwww....now you got me started!

This is definately a slippery slope. While you all (general term) are trying to debate nature/nurture in terms of science so that it can be explained. I think it is an easy debate/answer.

I feel it is unnatural. It goes against God, man, and biology. Therefore, it must be nurture. My reasons for thinking this way? I will put forth the following:
For science; For the sake of argument, most creatures have 2 genders. Without these 2, totally different, genders having intercourse, then there would be NO continuance of a species. This is biology, therefore, since biology enforces offspring and the having of babies to continue a species, then it must not be biological.
For religion; Sodom and Gomorrah. Enough said.
For man's law; acts of sodomy are punishable by law...even if it is with your spouse.

So, if God's law, man's law, and biology all go against something, I think that is pretty convincing proof that it is not natural.

So why is it done? Biology...before a young person has the emotional maturity to handle all of the thoughts, changes, and hormones in their body, strange thoughts occur? If they are entertained with acceptance, does it becomes OK? It becomes part of culture. For example, how many people feel that it is OK for you to slap your parents? Of those, how many have slapped their spouses? Is it OK or not? Some cultures feel it is OK to be physical while others don't. If the urge to slap is accepted, it becomes normal, whether it is wrong or not.

My .02
Well said Grease, I have known some (Male and Female) that have jumped the fence only to return later, every one of them had a strained relationship with their father, most of them never had his approval. I think it comes down to nurture somehow. My $.02.
 

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I think that it is learned behavior or disorder. Not "natural". As others have suggested if this were a natural thing, how would we continue?

WE are not animals though, and we didn't evolve from monkeys so perhaps humans are in a different class than the animals anyway.

There are things that occur in nature that are not natural, however. But in anycase, I believe that it is wrong, because God says that it is wrong. (perhaps many will discount my opinion because I am appealing to a higher authority.)I also believe that having sex before marriage is wrong as well. Does that mean that as a male w/ ample amount of testosterone wouldn't like to, no...God's given us our bodies to pro-create, but also guided us in how to use them in the proper fashion. So even if homosexuality is a feeling felt by an individual, we do not have the right to participate in it.

Some could argue that "murder" happens in nature. Does that make it right? (no)This is veering off topic, I know...But for me the bottom line is that even if homosexuality was natural, it would still be considered as shameful to participate in, and shouldn't be accepted by society. The Bible strictly condemns it as sin. If you study history, you'll find that no society can thrive w/ homosexuality prevalent. Other than the obvious lack of procreation, there is also the demise of the correct family environment, which our country already is seeing the aftermath of.
 
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