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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Dudes,

Everyone says upgrading the master cylinder is the single best upgrade you can do to the lacking braking system on the Gen 1 10R. Quite frankly, I don't have a problem with the stopping power of my Ten on the track. I don't mind that I have to squeeze a little harder than my buddy on his new 6R to get the bike to slow down. In my mind, if I can make the bike do an endo at any speed, then the brakes are doing all that they can do anyway. Perhaps my opinions will change once I start tracking it more.

However, after a 20 minute session, my brakes definitely start to feel "mushy" and the lever pulls back further and further. Just wondering what upgrade I need to make to remedy this situation? I bled my brakes with new DOT 4 on Saturday before I tracked it on Sunday, and the fluid I bled off was nearly black coming out. "Good," I exclaimed "the fluid must have been boiled and that's why my brakes get mushy."

But, still my brakes were mushy after only 10 minutes or so (though I was definitely going quite a bit faster this time around at Monticello as opposed to my first track days 2 weeks ago). I've been tracking my car for a while now, and stainless lines and high temp fluid (along with race pads) get rid of all fade and mushiness even during a 40 minute session. This does not seem to be the consensus with the bike.

So, my actual question: If I currently find the stopping power of my bike adequate, what I do I need to do to make sure my brakes don't change throughout the course of a session? Is it simply SS lines and fluid, or is this where one gets into changing the master cylinder? I can't see where changing calipers would have anything to do with this, and figured guys changed calipers in order to get that "hair trigger" braking response that some people find so important, though I do not at the moment. Any help (mostly from guys who track their bikes) would be appreciated.
 

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Do a search for caliper upgrades or brake fixes. The topic has been gone over many times. It is a common problem with your first gen. I too have an 05 and do track days and putting cbr600rr calipers on it fixed the problem.
 

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I had Gafler pads Superbike rotors and steel lines. Did 4 laps and had no brakes going into a turn a 120mph. So I limped it around the track went to the parts truck and bought a brembo master cylinder 19x18. Switched it out and OMG all the other stuff I had done was useless until I changed the master cylinder. I could fold rubber on the front tire after that, and no fade what so ever. I even blued the rotors from stopping so hard.
I still have the stock calipers. MC has to go it will save your life!!!
 

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Yes do a search but it needs different callipers...I started with ss brake lines, replaced fluid and bled the piss out of them and it never got any better...I researched and came up with changing the callipers (I used ZX14) and now the brakes are rock solid. I decided that I didn't need to change the master cylinder.
 

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Ehhhh crap, so one guy swears by the master cylinder and one guy swears by the calipers. Any other opinions?
The main problem with the stock brakes is that they are extremely difficult to get all the air out of...Something about the design, good luck in your search.
 

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calipers, its been a long time fix. Going to a 4 pad caliper was the problem, switch to a 2 pad(cbr,r1,14,what have u) and the MAIN braking issue will be fixed. Ervins had a HUGE thread "brakes fixed" check it out.
 

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Ehhhh crap, so one guy swears by the master cylinder and one guy swears by the calipers. Any other opinions?
Hi, I recently put blade calipers on my 04 10R, ss lines and race fluid and then got some bendix road race pads ... tracked it for 2 days for the first time in 4 years last week and after 20 minute sessions had noticable increase in lever travel as I did 4 years ago except the lever travel got there quickly after a couple of laps and stayed at that point throughout so I am happy. Last time I had the lever to the bars !! I am a bit faster and weigh a stone more than last time on the same track so more braking power was needed :mrgreen:

The pads lasted 9 x 20 min sessions btw and my discs are now blue and showing signs of being a bit warped .... got AP racing pads for the last 3 sessions and they made a difference as well - even better braking! I feel that they'll throw me over the top if I overdo it and am confident with this setup ...

Stock MC and no wish to change it .... just need to get some stompgrip and new discs and I'll be ready for 2 days at Le Mans next month .. that will test them brakes :thumbsup:
 

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I went with the zx14 calipers and master cylinder, also SS lines and my brakes are solid!!
:+1:...do this and you'll have no more brake issues whatsoever my friend. Best upgrade and money spent so far on my 04'!!!!:mrgreen:
 

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Look, take it for what it is worth I put my experience out there and told the truth of my story. You can change the calipers or the MC doesn't matter there are more than one way to fix the problem, I'm just telling you how I did it. I like the gold calipers so I kept them. Didn't mess with spacers and bigger discs. I just noticed a huge improvement by going to a radial brembo MC. Changing the calipers to a two pad will make a difference due to fluid dynamics. But in any case it is a mismatched system in stock form. Just figure out what you want. The biggest thing is just doing it, and not trying to figure out who is right. Pick one you will see an improvement either way.
 

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I have a 06 but would like to mention that the brembo MC and SS lines has never faded on me. I don't track the bike but I do tear the mountain roads up pretty good.
 

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my 1st gen is a street bike mainly but I use it on the track as well. I have a brembo RCS master cylinder, SS braided lines with stock pads and calipers. I have taken this setup out on the track and had good strong braking. The only difficulty is getting the stock calipers bled properly to get the lever feel I like, usually have to remove them to bleed that last bit of air out.

However, this past weekend it was extremely hot (100F), and up to this point all my track sessions with the 10 have been mild conditions. The morning I was doing fine and the brakes held up well. I then started getting some fade midafternoon. By the last session the track surface temp must have been around 130. I then started to get front end chatter on braking everywhere, light or heavy braking, bumpy or smooth pavement. Chatter could be forks, head bearings, or tires, but I strongly suspect the brake calipers or pads since the onset was sudden and in extreme temp conditions. Still have to do some troubleshooting.

If you do a search you will find that there are some many who feel that the brake calipers need to be changed. i think it depends. For street riding, I think the stock calipers are just fine when bled properly, but I would strongly suggest a radial master cylinder and stainless braided lines for the brake feel they give even on a street bike. At the track, the brembo unit gives unbelievable feel...it is pure heaven trail braking with this bike and a brembo RCS. However, if you want the ultimate track weapon with a first gen, I would swap the calipers because of the fade issues in extreme heat. I may go this way eventually depending on how long I plan to keep this bike, but I have a set of Vesrah RJL pads that I'm going to swap in to see if this helps.
 

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I changed my stock lines to the Galfer SS lines and I have already noticed a difference. I don't track my bike but I do like the feel of a brake system that will stop me with no problems in heavy traffic. I do intend on doing more upgrading to the brakes, but for now the SS lines are Top Notch! Can anyone tell me if the MC from the ZX-14 is a direct replacement and no modifications needed application?
 

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Well here we go again with the whole shitty ZX10R front brake debate. Should I go calipers, should I go master cylinder, new pads, braided lines, ect...? Ok for starters what do you do primarily with the bike? Track, street, twisties? Then what's your budget? Can you only afford maybe a $100 to spend or do you have an endless pocketbook or more like something in between? Or better yet how much do you want to spend? My bike is 100% track only. I run an AP Racing Master Cylinder, Goodridge brake lines, Motul RBF600, Vesrah RJL's, Braking Wave Rotors, and yes stock calipers. Let me say that again stock calipers!!!!!! I have never in 5 years of owning the bike had the so called issues with bleeding the front brakes that everyones says they have. I put the front brake setup together about 4 years ago and have not deviated from it. I have no fade in the front. Trail braking is a pure joy with this setup. I just came from back to back days at Thunderhill where track temps were in the 110's and had no issues what so ever with my brakes. I run middle pack in A-Group and really the only ones who pass me are the expert plated racers. But I am a very late braker and am very hard on them and the stock calipers have yet to fail me. I would change the MC, switch brake lines, run some Vesrah RJL's, and some Motul RBF600 and I will almost guarantee no matter what kind of riding you are doing you will not have any issues with your brakes.
 

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Well here we go again with the whole shitty ZX10R front brake debate. Should I go calipers, should I go master cylinder, new pads, braided lines, ect...? Ok for starters what do you do primarily with the bike? Track, street, twisties? Then what's your budget? Can you only afford maybe a $100 to spend or do you have an endless pocketbook or more like something in between? Or better yet how much do you want to spend? My bike is 100% track only. I run an AP Racing Master Cylinder, Goodridge brake lines, Motul RBF600, Vesrah RJL's, Braking Wave Rotors, and yes stock calipers. Let me say that again stock calipers!!!!!! I have never in 5 years of owning the bike had the so called issues with bleeding the front brakes that everyones says they have. I put the front brake setup together about 4 years ago and have not deviated from it. I have no fade in the front. Trail braking is a pure joy with this setup. I just came from back to back days at Thunderhill where track temps were in the 110's and had no issues what so ever with my brakes. I run middle pack in A-Group and really the only ones who pass me are the expert plated racers. But I am a very late braker and am very hard on them and the stock calipers have yet to fail me. I would change the MC, switch brake lines, run some Vesrah RJL's, and some Motul RBF600 and I will almost guarantee no matter what kind of riding you are doing you will not have any issues with your brakes.
Thank you for some common damn sense.:+1::+2::+2::+2::+2::+1:
My bike is track ready and willing. I am a NESBA intermediate mostly because I don't have time to run more trackdays but I stay up front when I do run.

I used to think that having a good amount of lever pull made me have a good feel for the brakes. Boy is that ever wrong. You go on thinking that until you hit a wall with your lever pinned to the bar. I almost did.

If you can't bleed your brakes then there is a thread for that, go read it!
For God sakes use some good fluid.
 
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