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Ring Dingers are light and may hold a spot in trials and most freestyle riders will continue to ride them.

MX. Forget about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ring Dingers are light and may hold a spot in trials and most freestyle riders will continue to ride them.

MX. Forget about it.

lol forget about it??????? the 2 stroke is the perfect engine for the MX. Lighter, cheaper to maintain, way less loud and way more fun to ride. TM racing are going to unveiled their new 2010 EFI 250cc two stroke at the EICMA motorcycle show running right now.4 stroke are junk and did nothing good to the sport so far.
 

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lol forget about it??????? the 2 stroke is the perfect engine for the MX. Lighter, cheaper to maintain, way less loud and way more fun to ride. TM racing are going to unveiled their new 2010 EFI 250cc two stroke at the EICMA motorcycle show running right now.4 stroke are junk and did nothing good to the sport so far.
Perfect engine for mx? Check the starting grid.

Lighter? Barely.

Cheaper to maintain, but way more often.

Way less loud? a little

More fun to ride? At times. Mostly GNCC. I personally like the engine braking and the torque of the 4 strokes. Thats an "opinion".:wink:

Junk and did nothing for the sport? Care to explain? :bs: 2 strokes need rebuilt all the time. Some of the 4 strokes are freakin' bullet proof. Nothing for the sport? I guess you could consider the 450's ripping the whoops apart bad.:lol: I call it badass!:smile:

Maybe you should get a modern 4 stroke and compare your current laptimes. We beat the comparisons to death in 02-03. Some Ring Dingers just can't let go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Perfect engine for mx? Check the starting grid.

Lighter? Barely.

Cheaper to maintain, but way more often.

Way less loud? a little

More fun to ride? At times. Mostly GNCC. I personally like the engine braking and the torque of the 4 strokes. Thats an "opinion".:wink:

Junk and did nothing for the sport? Care to explain? :bs: 2 strokes need rebuilt all the time. Some of the 4 strokes are freakin' bullet proof. Nothing for the sport? I guess you could consider the 450's ripping the whoops apart bad.:lol: I call it badass!:smile:

Maybe you should get a modern 4 stroke and compare your current laptimes. We beat the comparisons to death in 02-03. Some Ring Dingers just can't let go.
They only thing good about the modern 4 stroke is their displacement advantage.. this is it.

Would like to see a modern 450 2 stroke with the alu chassis ..efi against the latest 450 4 stroke.......

the latest 450 Yamaha is 245lbs hahahahaha
the new Ktm 250 2 stroke is 208 lb!

How much is to rebuilt a modern 4 stroke? way too fucking much... Never seen so many DNFss no cheap to maintain..bulletproof my ass! I will put a sleeve in my 2 stroke rebuilt the top-end as much as I want..so fucking cheap
How expensive it is to mod out a modern 4 stroke? Just the exhaust itself is about a 1000.00 lol ..a 2 stroke is about $350.00 and we don't talk about engine works..
Stall everywhere and won't restart lol.. engine braking you don't need it in racing.. you need momentum..
4 stroke are way more louder..they carry the noise way farther..Have you been to a race lately? the first 2 laps will give you a headache.. so many tracks are shutting down also because of the noise...
4 stroke overheat..boil the gas in tank lol
more fun to ride because you go trough the gears..you are using the clutch lol...you ride the bike no the reverse..look at the injuries right now.. in the sport..fucking joke..
The kids are having problems with the transition from 85cc to 250f...way bigger than a 125cc. Also same thing for the female...
4 stroke killed the used bike market..Nobody want to buy a used 4 stroke..
Also...the big four are having an hard time selling their 4 junks...so many left over on the floors.. nobody wants them.

I don't want to get into a 2 stroke vs 4 junk..but read this : http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Manifesto_Two_Stroke.pdf
 

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My opinion, 2-strokes are more exciting because of the powerband.. BUT, I would much rather have a 4 stoke to piss around on everyday because the simple fact that they're so easy to maintain. I don't race MX so.. I want something I can dump some gas in a pin it through the trails/my yard :)
 

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Good article BadExample.. I agree w/ the 2-stoke fun factor. I also think it all comes down to rider style/preference.. (obviously!)
 

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A lot of bike Manufacterers stopped producing 2stroke engines because they ran into a brick wall as far as Tech goes,just look at the tech in 4 strokers now as compared to 5yr ago,honda will release the first fuel injected MXer next year,still 2 strokers are fun,cheaper,lighter!
 

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The originally quoted article mentions electronic fuel injection, but doesn't say much else about it. Without direct injection straight into the cylinder (or close to it - Bombardier's semi-direct injection works well, too) there is no possibility of two-stroke engines meeting emission standards, and without *that*, they are limited to applications that are not subject to emission regulations - and those are getting fewer and fewer.
 

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i grew up on two stokes and they are so much fun, you never forget the first time you open up your kx125 when your like 13 and almost pee in your panties.

trials are great and that is a very sweet looking bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
i grew up on two stokes and they are so much fun, you never forget the first time you open up your kx125 when your like 13 and almost pee in your panties.

trials are great and that is a very sweet looking bike.
AHhahaha Awesome quote! Been there done that!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The originally quoted article mentions electronic fuel injection, but doesn't say much else about it. Without direct injection straight into the cylinder (or close to it - Bombardier's semi-direct injection works well, too) there is no possibility of two-stroke engines meeting emission standards, and without *that*, they are limited to applications that are not subject to emission regulations - and those are getting fewer and fewer.
The EPA rate of the E-Tech from Envirude and Bombardier is lower than any four stroke on the market. EPA rating of zero with no smell, no smoke. :thumbsup:
 

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The originally quoted article mentions electronic fuel injection, but doesn't say much else about it. Without direct injection straight into the cylinder (or close to it - Bombardier's semi-direct injection works well, too) there is no possibility of two-stroke engines meeting emission standards, and without *that*, they are limited to applications that are not subject to emission regulations - and those are getting fewer and fewer.
My memory is a bit fuzzy on this but wasn't Bimota working on a two stage injection system for the 500 V due? Again a bit fuzzy, but the oil was injected into the cylinder first then the gas (not sure where in the stroke cycle what was happening). I guess the idea was you had the lubrication benefits of the oil but with a more complete burn. They never got it to work properly, probably because of lack of computing power. I'm interested to see what these guys have done.
 

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LOL, good catch.

Regarding the direct-injection and semi-direct-injection, they do work quite well. Friend of mine has a Bombardier snowmobile with the semi-direct-injection (SDI) engine, and it's more fuel efficient than the 4-stroke sleds and beyond comparison to the 2-strokes. No stinky exhaust, either, and the engine fires evenly and runs smoothly. On those engines, because there is no fuel going through the crankcase, oil is metered in separately to the crankcase.

Bimota's V-due indeed did use direct injection, but rather than paying to license patents from a company that had already sorted it out at the time (Orbital) they tried to do it themselves, and didn't have the resources to do it right. Electronics were not as well developed back in those days, either.

The Bombardier SDI system was interesting because the injector is located in the transfer ports between the crankcase and cylinder, so it isn't exposed to combustion chamber conditions, and it's more or less like a normal automotive fuel injector. I believe they have since replaced this system with a high-pressure direct-injection system (Evinrude E-tec).

Anyway, this is a side discussion. We don't know how the EFI system on this engine works. If it's a direct-injection or semi-direct-injection system, that's interesting. If it's squirting fuel into the crankcase or into the intake air going into the crankcase (direct replacement for carbs), it has no future ...
 

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Anyway, this is a side discussion. We don't know how the EFI system on this engine works. If it's a direct-injection or semi-direct-injection system, that's interesting. If it's squirting fuel into the crankcase or into the intake air going into the crankcase (direct replacement for carbs), it has no future ...
What ever technology they are using, it's amazing they got it all to fit in such a small package!
 

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My memory is a bit fuzzy on this but wasn't Bimota working on a two stage injection system for the 500 V due? Again a bit fuzzy, but the oil was injected into the cylinder first then the gas (not sure where in the stroke cycle what was happening). I guess the idea was you had the lubrication benefits of the oil but with a more complete burn. They never got it to work properly, probably because of lack of computing power. I'm interested to see what these guys have done.
yep Bimota did


 
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