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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I really need help troubleshooting this one.

This weekend I installed healtech's GI ATRE G2 gear indicator and IRC's SGRACE_CUT quick shifter on my gen 1. They bike used to run amazing.

After installation the idle was very rough, she sounded like she was gonna stall at any time and was very rough to ride in 1st at low rpm or just with released clutch and no gas. She also sounded off, like a cilinder was misfiring and would yank me back and forth. She seemed to get smoother at higher rpm. I had to stop and raise the idle because it had dropped from 1100ish before the installation to 900ish just to get back home.

I tried playing with the quishifter settings but it didn't help so I completely uninstalled the quishifter disconnecting everything. The quick shifter cuts the power directly at the coil plugs so before reconnecting the coil plugs to the oem harness i tried pulling them out and reseating them tight to make sure I had not pulled them out any while first installing the qs.

Bike still missfired even without the quick sifter and with original connections to the main harness. I made sure I reconnected them correctly as per manual.

Next idea was to turn off the GI. I had ridden the bike with the tre function off but this time I just cut the power to the GI and it still missfired.

The way this gi works is it's plugged to the green GPS plug under the air box and to the rear brake 12v. I left it connected to the GPS and I just disconnected it from the 12v because I didn't have the time to go back under the air box and disconnect it from the GPS too and wasn't sure that would make a difference.

I'm quite anal about the bike and this job i did and made sure there were no kinks in the tubes at the throttle bodies and at the fuel line under the tank.

One last thing I'll add is used one of those cheap laser temperature guns to check the headers after stopping. Not sure how accurate these toys are but the first header from to the left of the rider was colder, like almost half the temp colder than the others.

I'm running out of ideas: either the qs harness damaged the coil plugs but then why would the bike run better at higher rpm or I'm missing something very obvious. I can't see how messing with the GPS would have anything to do with this.
 

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Well possibly you disturbed or damaged something while you were working, a coil feed or something. Did you remove the throttle bodies, if so have you damaged an injector maybe, its possible if your heavy handed the throttle bodies need re balancing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well possibly you disturbed or damaged something while you were working, a coil feed or something. Did you remove the throttle bodies, if so have you damaged an injector maybe, its possible if your heavy handed the throttle bodies need re balancing.
I was very anal with the whole process I don't think I've damaged a thing. I mainly moved parts out of the way to get to the coils and gps and I didn't tug any cables. I did not remove the throttle bodies, just the airbox. While I was there i actually made sure that there were no points where the tubes connected to the TB were kinked and everything was right ...lmao if only I knew...

Thing is I've read on italian forums there are other people that have had this issue on other bikes with this irc qs, only thing is that they got a replacement and it fixed the issue while I'm still having the issue without the qs even being on...

The qs did work thought. When I got her past 5k she ran better and the qs engaged but as i slowed down the stubbling got worse. Basically the lower the rpm the worse she runs.
 

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Well, the only way to check this thoroughly is to suck it up and remove the GIPro ATRE all together. The next thing to do is swap the coil pack from the bad cylinder to one of the other ones to see if the problem follows it and you lost a coil pack in the process. If the problem follows that, then you'll know. Since you removed the QS already you can reasonably eliminate that as the issue.

Do you know how that ATRE works? I'm surprised you installed one of those if you expect the "TRE" part to do anything. The GIPro w/ATRE intercepts the GPS input to the ECU. It shows the proper gear selected on it's own display, but tricks the ECU into thinking that it's in a gear that it isn't. The thought being that any gear-based fuel and ignition timing maps would be bypassed by this. If the ECU thinks it's in "neutral" all the time, then it runs the neutral mapping. Presumably the neutral mapping has more aggressive timing and no restrictions like it would see in the selected gear. That GIPro also had a "hard" or "soft" setting if I remember right. That only selected between the neutral and 5th gear signal to send to the ECU. That thing was nice as a gear indicator, but the TRE part was never proven to do anything measurable.

Considering this stuff started after you installed the ATRE, then how can you verify that the ECU is seeing a bad signal and running rough due to the mapping it thinks it's trying to use? Just because you disconnect power from the GIPro, you can't assume that the ECU is seeing what it should in order to run right because of that. You need to remove the GIPro completely and connect the GPS back to directly to the ECU like it would be stock. Then you can continue your troubleshooting based on how the bike responds to that. You're just shootin' blanks tracking down potential issues if you don't do it that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, the only way to check this thoroughly is to suck it up and remove the GIPro ATRE all together. The next thing to do is swap the coil pack from the bad cylinder to one of the other ones to see if the problem follows it and you lost a coil pack in the process. If the problem follows that, then you'll know. Since you removed the QS already you can reasonably eliminate that as the issue.

Do you know how that ATRE works? I'm surprised you installed one of those if you expect the "TRE" part to do anything. The GIPro w/ATRE intercepts the GPS input to the ECU. It shows the proper gear selected on it's own display, but tricks the ECU into thinking that it's in a gear that it isn't. The thought being that any gear-based fuel and ignition timing maps would be bypassed by this. If the ECU thinks it's in "neutral" all the time, then it runs the neutral mapping. Presumably the neutral mapping has more aggressive timing and no restrictions like it would see in the selected gear. That GIPro also had a "hard" or "soft" setting if I remember right. That only selected between the neutral and 5th gear signal to send to the ECU. That thing was nice as a gear indicator, but the TRE part was never proven to do anything measurable.

Considering this stuff started after you installed the ATRE, then how can you verify that the ECU is seeing a bad signal and running rough due to the mapping it thinks it's trying to use? Just because you disconnect power from the GIPro, you can't assume that the ECU is seeing what it should in order to run right because of that. You need to remove the GIPro completely and connect the GPS back to directly to the ECU like it would be stock. Then you can continue your troubleshooting based on how the bike responds to that. You're just shootin' blanks tracking down potential issues if you don't do it that way.
I'm a noob with a lot of patience and willpower, thats how i got this done in the first place, but it just didn't work out as expected.

I didn't expect the tre to have an impact on this but i had to consider it a potential issue since I removed i qs completely. The tre was off the whole time anyways, so the only thing left to do to turn the whole setup back to oem is to remove the gipro completely. I'll revert the GPS to stock tomorrow and see if that fixes it. If it doesn't I'll play with the coils. Still, i do think the coils will be the culprit since I can't imagine a malfunctioning gps would impact the bike this way and specifically make a cylinder misfire.
 

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I'm a noob with a lot of patience and willpower, thats how i got this done in the first place, but it just didn't work out as expected.

I didn't expect the tre to have an impact on this but i had to consider it a potential issue since I removed i qs completely. The tre was off the whole time anyways, so the only thing left to do to turn the whole setup back to oem is to remove the gipro completely. I'll revert the GPS to stock tomorrow and see if that fixes it. If it doesn't I'll play with the coils. Still, i do think the coils will be the culprit since I can't imagine a malfunctioning gps would impact the bike this way and specifically make a cylinder misfire.
Yeah, I wouldn't expect the GIPro to be the main issue you're seeing. But that sits in between the GPS and the ECU. Just because you've disconnected the power to it and it's turned off doesn't mean that it sending the correct value to the ECU. There is a physical device in-between the connections. The only way to know for sure if that isn't the issue is to remove it completely. I think there's something else wrong, but you have to pinpoint that by eliminating other things. Since the GIPro was the last change done to the bike before this started, it only reasons to put it back the way it was to eliminate that as the culprit. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've removed the gipro. Bike is stock now. Went for a test ride and the problem is still there: in 1st crusing with released clutch she yanks back and forth and as i give more rpm the acceleration is very very rough from 1k to 2.5k. The more gently i accelerate the more she seems to yank. Past 2.5k she gets smoother. It's very inconsistent: sometimes I'll gently decel in 1st and cruise with the clutch and she'll be I'd say abouy 75% smooth with some yanks here and there but sometimes she will be very rough. Same for acceleration sometimes she bogs a bit and sometimes it's quite aggressive, quite unrideable really.

She never did this before, was always buttery smooth.

I'm ruling out the fuel pump since I cleaned it a few months back and it wouldn't make sense for the bike to run better at high rpm than at low if the pump couldn't keep up with the fuel demand.

Next i think it could be the spark plugs. Maybe the QS damaged one or two of them and they just need to be replaced. No idea how many miles the have. I don't even have the socket and magnet to get them out so I'm considering buying spare plugs and the tools to do the job.

Another thing that comes to mind is that there were some areas that my hands touched while I was installing the accessories: i touched quite a bit but not harshly the steel pipe the fuel line attaches to while gaining access to the GPS and installing the gipro and the throttle cables while i was accessing the plugs to install the qs.

The whole measuring the temp of the headers with the gun thing was a fiasco, the temps are very inconsistent depending on where you measure and the distance.

I can't see how swapping the coils would help: wouldn't i just be moving the problem from a spark plug to the other by swapping the coils and how would I know that anything changed?
 

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I think Skydork based the switching of the coils around on you being able to read the header temps, ie if cylinder 1 was cold then cylinder 1's coil was on 2 then that was normal then it would in theory not be the coil stick from cylinder 1 but some other issue, just away of eliminating coil stick issues if you don't have the means to test them. You had a sweet running bike before you fitted mods the mods are now removed and you have an issue now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The decel cable lock nut was very lose. I adjusted the cable to have about 2-3mm of play and i locked the nut. I'm 95% percent sure this is not the issue because had i reduced the play while installing the qs onto the plugs, the bike would just have a higher idle wouldn't it? Also this wouldn't explain the yanking she does i don't think and the fact that i had to actually raise the idle instead of lowering it to prevent her from stalling. Anyways it's very late now i don't have time to put the airbox and tank back on and wake everyone at home up starting her to see if the throttle play helps at all.

I'll work more on the tomorrow. Looking forward to your kind instructions if you have more ideas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think Skydork based the switching of the coils around on you being able to read the header temps, ie if cylinder 1 was cold then cylinder 1's coil was on 2 then that was normal then it would in theory not be the coil stick from cylinder 1 but some other issue, just away of eliminating coil stick issues if you don't have the means to test them. You had a sweet running bike before you fitted mods the mods are now removed and you have an issue now.
That would be a great plan but the gun is so damn inconsistent. I tried measuring again at more consistent distance and at the same spot on each header and the temp was very similar. If I sway up or down along the header by a couple inches the temp varies quite a bit to the point i can't tell if a cylinder a bit colder or I'm just measuring wrong.
Maybe tomorrow I'll try to go about it in a more scientific way. I thinking ill order the spark plugs and tools anyways since I haven't serviced them yet in the time I've owned the bike (around 8 months, most of which the bike was sitting) and rule that out. Not as keen to replace the coil plugs since they are so expensive to buy brand new. I might buy used ones if it latrr turns out they need replacing.
 

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Michael was right, as usual. I suggested swapping the coil packs from one cylinder to another one to see if the temperature reading followed it. That would mean that you lost a coil pack and that's the problem. If it didn't follow and the low temp reading cylinder was still the same, then you'd have to start looking at the injectors for that cylinder as the culprit.

You should be able to use the infrared thermometer to get a decent enough reading on the header. But you should measure them the same way on each cylinder each time you do it (same location, same distance, same length of time, etc). It won't be very accurate overall, but for the sake of finding out if one or more cylinders are not firing right and running drastically cooler, it should work for that.
 

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That would be a great plan but the gun is so damn inconsistent. I tried measuring again at more consistent distance and at the same spot on each header and the temp was very similar. If I sway up or down along the header by a couple inches the temp varies quite a bit to the point i can't tell if a cylinder a bit colder or I'm just measuring wrong.
Maybe tomorrow I'll try to go about it in a more scientific way. I thinking ill order the spark plugs and tools anyways since I haven't serviced them yet in the time I've owned the bike (around 8 months, most of which the bike was sitting) and rule that out. Not as keen to replace the coil plugs since they are so expensive to buy brand new. I might buy used ones if it latrr turns out they need replacing.
That's good. Ordering the spark plugs and tool will help. It's not a bad idea to put those in once you have them gapped. It would seem to me that the plug would not fail so abruptly like that though. Usually as the gap opens over time and they take more energy to jump it and spark properly, that they would be more linear as they drop off over time. It would be fairly easy to just swap out a couple of the coil packs to see if the issue follows it or not. That will help narrow down the real problem.
 

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Unfortunately, I don't speak the greek to read the details on that tool in the link. ;):giggle: The socket part of that tool looks fine. It's the included extension rod attached to it. The frame rails over those cylinders prevent direct access will the longer tools typically. That keeps you from going straight up and down to those plugs. I've used a standard socket, 6" extension, and ratchet to get to them. But I've had to assemble it all in the hole to make it work, but you don't really need anything fancy. Since that extension can't be detached at all, you'll just have to see if you can get enough angle to clear the frame as it goes in. Nice looking tool overall. I just can't confirm if that will work or not for sure.

English Version
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Its aaaaa italiano.;)
I'm gonna go for it. Since the overall length is about 6" and the extension part is a bit over half the overall length that would make the extension shorter than the coil plug i think. I know the boot of the coil is rubbery and can be bent but im gonna bite the bullet and try this tool.

Edit: i forgot to write that i also called irc. They are very kind and patient. They told me that it's unlikely that a spark plug went bad and what happened was i probably had a coil plug that was just hanging in there by a thread and the QS must have pushed it over the edge. They assured me the harness does not feed a different voltage than stock, it's just more aggressive and abruptive when it comes to cutting and giving the power and that may have done it. They said it's compatible with my bike and should not give further problems when replacing the bad coil/coils.
 

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Oh, Italiano. That makes more sense. The only Italian I know is from playing the Super Mario Brothers video game. That's why I didn't recognize it. :ROFLMAO:

That's never a bad tool to have in your toolbox even if you don't use it for this.

See, this is the type of thing I read where someone second-guesses me. I told you several posts ago to swap the coil packs to make sure that wasn't the issue. I told you it was unlikely the plug went bad. And then you call up some "professional" shop to get a second opinion on it and all they do is confirm what I've posted already. I'm very kind and patient as well, as evidenced in my 5 posts here. :sneaky:

Yes, the spark plugs can't jump the plug gap with just 12 VDC from the alternator/battery. The igniter packs are designed to convert and up-rate the voltage to make the plug actually spark. The plugs typically need 10,000+ volts to spark, but at low amperage. You feed a 12 VDC signal in and the coil turns that into what is needed. So yes, sounds like the coil pack or more went bad on you (as confirmed by the kind shop that told you that). Get the wrench and do the spark plugs at the same time as the packs and you should be good for many more miles on it. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I'm very grateful for your insight and never meant to be disrespectful. I ordered the replacement parts before calling IRC based on the feedback on got itt from you and Micheal no questions asked.

IRC is not a shop, no professional took a look at the bike. IRC is the manufacturer of the QS and i gave them a call to see what they had to say about it and to know if it was safe to install the QS again after replacing the coils. They made the unit and the harness and surely they know best, also based on other costumers, how their product behaves.

I'm quite broke but once this ends I'll PayPal you and Micheal a few bucks so at least you can have a beer on me.
:p
 

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I'm very grateful for your insight and never meant to be disrespectful. I ordered the replacement parts before calling IRC based on the feedback on got itt from you and Micheal no questions asked.

IRC is not a shop, no professional took a look at the bike. IRC is the manufacturer of the QS and i gave them a call to see what they had to say about it and to know if it was safe to install the QS again after replacing the coils. They made the unit and the harness and surely they know best, also based on other costumers, how their product behaves.

I'm quite broke but once this ends I'll PayPal you and Micheal a few bucks so at least you can have a beer on me.
:p
I wasn't being serious with any of that and just giving you a hard time! That's part of what I do here! :ROFLMAO:;) Getting your bike back on the road and working good knowing that I was somewhat helpful is thanks enough! (y)
 

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And I didn't contribute anything really no issues here. Just nice too know hopefully you ll be back out there with a big grin soon enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
While waiting for the parts the get here, this weekend I'm installing a pair of gen4 mirrors i had bought a couple of weeks back. I was able to make them fit but now I'm unsure about the wiring of the led turn signals: can i just wire them to the oem turn signals or do I run into the risk of burning a fuse? I currently have led turn signals installed in the rear that some previous owner installed directly to the OEM harness and I've had no problems so I should be fine right?
IMG_20210424_202227.jpg
 
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