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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday i did a track day at a track ive never ridden before.
After first session learning where the track went i started to up the pace and was pushing har as you can see in the vid below.
Bike felt good especially on corner entry where i could trail brake deep into the corner.
But as usual for me the rear grip fell off a cliff after a few hard laps and i had a slide then a near highside and then i had to back down the pace.
After each session i was knackered too.
In the afternoon i tried my dads 2016 s1000rr that id never ridden before and instantly was going well. Keeping up with quick riders on a bike i knew nothing about.
Things i noticed were where mine spins the rear the s1000 wont let it happen. Changing direction felt easier somehow and when i got back to the pits i was barely breaking a sweat and the tyre was in good order.
Its does have a slightly vague feeling to it but it has made me realise that as much as i like the zx10s there may be a better bike out there for me.
Anyway heres the vid.
https://youtu.be/1F8HuAkKGTw
 

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Did the BMW feel lot more comfortable?
I've considered the same switch since I have heard it is more comfortable than a ZX-10R but I have not ridden an S1000rr myself.

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Did the BMW feel lot more comfortable?
I've considered the same switch since I have heard it is more comfortable than a ZX-10R but I have not ridden an S1000rr myself.

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I would say it was slightly comfier.
The seat was softer for me and i now feel like it is one of the problems with the zx10.
On the zx10 im always trying to pull myself forward on to the tank and the s1000 it holds you forwards and the narrower seat makes it simple to slip from side to side when changing direction.
On the road however being jammed onto the tank could be slightly uncomfortable for a man!
 

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The new era superbikes electronic packages are sweet! They let you get away with a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The new era superbikes electronic packages are sweet! They let you get away with a lot.
True. I was pinning the throttle and it was applying the power gradually itsself.
But that is part of the reason why it felt slighty disconnected and almost like you are cheating.
That said they are adjustable so you can dial in less if you want to.
Id love to do a track day on a gen5 zx10 to compare
 

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The Pace
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I watched half the vid and you all looks good to me. If the rr feels better buy it and keep the 10r What may be happening is a transitioning level up glitch. My point is that you look great to me but since you feel better on the rr then go there but keep the 10r ready because the rr may be simply another segway to the next level up. I'm simply thinking here based upon your vid. The problem that I have with track is that it's so hard to ride everyday at the track. Luv Rossi as he said the truth: 'if I don't ride everyday, I'm afraid that I'll forget how to ride.' That is the truth.
 

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The Pace
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True. I was pinning the throttle and it was applying the power gradually itsself.
But that is part of the reason why it felt slighty disconnected and almost like you are cheating.
That said they are adjustable so you can dial in less if you want to.
Id love to do a track day on a gen5 zx10 g atmpare
The cheat feel is outside the comfort zone. Another way of looking at it is let the bike work for you; if the bike feels like it's working against you THEN IT'S YOU. And that's the true beauty of a super.

if working against the rider then the rider must sort out the problem. Not enough weight over; too late on throttle; can't remember the turn; too tired; too fat so can't help suspension; myriad of stuff. Even top level pros can't sort this every race.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I was on metzeler racetec 200 sc1 and it was quite a warm day.
Tyre was awsome for first few laps then it overheats and grip falls of a cliff.
I do believe half of it was the rear showa shock as that to felt good for few laps but when i pulled in the pits its damping was almost non existant.
Think the oil was over heating as on the road the shock is spot on.
The other half of the problem i believe to be that i didnt have the traction control on and im 6ft 4 tall and quite heavy.
 

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May want to try a SC2 or SC3 for a real hot day.

When was the last time the shock was serviced?

I run a gen 4 with an elka rear shock and sc1(front) and sc2(rear) and the bike is extremely compliant, smooth on the throttle and light on the bars helps a lot with that. I can easily spin the rear if i get a little whiskey throttle though. I have kit ecu and TC setup enough to help a slide but not a wheelie. I have yet to run in 100+degreeF temps, though i will be this weekend at buttonwillow, but i don't expect to have any issues. I'm also 6'2 & 210lbs if that helps.

I've heard the stock shock is absolute shit, unfortunately i don't have experience with one, nor how a gen5 shock would compare.
 

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When I buy a bike I consider suspension upgrades as part of the purchase price. The stock rear shock on the zx10 might be considered the weakest part of the package, as it certainly isn't one of the bikes strengths.

Before replacing the whole bike consider a good aftermarket shock set up for your needs.

I've read some of the changes you've done to the suspension setup of your bike, and a stock shock will always be a stock shock. If you wanna wick up the pace, recommend careful consideration of all chassis components.
 

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Geometry and suspension sound like an issue for you on your 10r which can easily be fixed. As others have mentioned you may need to consider upgrading components. As to the RR, it is a REALLY nice bike, but has it's own demons. Lots of moving parts and the electronics can be a bear and expensive to fix. I'm good buddies with the North American Race Engineer for BMW and have spent countless hours learning things from him. If you start going fast you'll have to drop some coin to get the electronics up to your pace. And do yourself a favor and do NOT get the active suspension! It can't keep up with your pace on the track, at any level.
 

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Damn you almost ass packed the RR! Been there done that! In some of my old vids you can hear me talking shit and commentating my own "almost" demise lol!

Nice vid man! You look pretty good out there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
May want to try a SC2 or SC3 for a real hot day.

When was the last time the shock was serviced?

I run a gen 4 with an elka rear shock and sc1(front) and sc2(rear) and the bike is extremely compliant, smooth on the throttle and light on the bars helps a lot with that. I can easily spin the rear if i get a little whiskey throttle though. I have kit ecu and TC setup enough to help a slide but not a wheelie. I have yet to run in 100+degreeF temps, though i will be this weekend at buttonwillow, but i don't expect to have any issues. I'm also 6'2 & 210lbs if that helps.

I've heard the stock shock is absolute shit, unfortunately i don't have experience with one, nor how a gen5 shock would compare.
Well i usually run sc2 tyres but i always get the same wear even though ive changed the shocks and linkages and even the same wear on my old gen1 and my old r1.
All have had shocks that were not setup properly for my weight so i know that is half the issue.
The current shock has done less than 1000 miles since new and on the road i noticed my usual wear was better and it felt good but it would appear they arent much good when your really on it on a hot day on track.
As for my riding and holding on too tight etc i have no option because the bike always floats the front wheel and its a real handful. Especially on to the long back straight. I got on the s1000 and it just drove out the corner with no issues what so ever.
The s1000 was bone stock but the rear suspension was way better than zx10s.
The only issue is the s1000 costs about a 1/3 more than my bike and i dont like the look of them to be honest
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Damn you almost ass packed the RR! Been there done that! In some of my old vids you can hear me talking shit and commentating my own "almost" demise lol!

Nie vid man! You look pretty good out there.
Tell me about it. I was giving it a squirt in between the change of direction and he did not.
Its the closest ive come to testing out my brake lever bash guard lol.
Shat myself for all of 2 seconds lol
 

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I'm not being funny and I hope you don't take offence, but you seem like a knowledgeable guy, make some your own parts, but you seem to be band aiding your bike.

You have rear tyre issues and make it sound like the ZX10R has some inherent problem.

Why spend time and avoid the enjoyment you could be having with your bike.

You do know that upon release, the gen 4 ZX10R was the superstock bike and pretty much still is.

The British Superstock championship was like a one make series.

This points to the fact that the bike is great as a package (especially for those budget restricted) but like anything, it has it's limitations.

Unfortunately that means sometimes spending money on the areas where the package is weak, but more importantly, getting the package set up by those of superior knowledge in bike set up.

Anyone can chuck thousands in Ohlins on a bike, but its those with the knowledge of set up that can make it work.

So start with the basics...Is the suspension in good condition? Anything that came in the bike fluid wise is trash. Even more so if never changed.

If the stock suspension is good, has a professional set it up for you in terms of your riding style and weight?

Those suspension people at the track have limited time and unfortunately sometimes knowledge. I once had a track suspension guy tell me my rear Ohlins on my K5 was shot only for me to take it to Steve Jordan and him show me it was completely fine. I know who I'd trust.

Your reasonably quick so you are now reaching the limitations of a bike designed to work on the street and sold for a budget.

Its a good package but even I'm finding its limits just riding on the street compared to my Ohlins K5.

This is not an ode to the ZX10R and yes there are better bikes out there. I think that BMW will definitely have strengths over our bike and the new R1 when set up could probably run rings around it with a semi good rider onboard.

But...You haven't seen your bike in the best light, so I don't think you're making an informed decision.

Ofcourse if you just fancy something new then I'll shut the fuck up and wish you the best, but for my money...

I'd give MCT Technics in Suffolk a call. Tell them what problems you're having.

Take the bike in with a budget in mind and have them work within that, whether that means a KTech or Ohlins shock and forks / cartridges or just them taking that crap shock off, taking it apart and fitting it with non crappy parts and non leaking seals.

Ok I will shut up now and good luck with whichever way you go.
 

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Ok I said I would shut up but if you want the best track tyres that stick like shit to a blanket, try Bridgestone R10s or V02 slicks.

I wouldn't personally don't trust any Pirelli / Metzler whatever...Yes even if the BSB / WSB boys use it.

Bridgestone make best track tyres IMO...Followed perhaps by Dunlop.

:)
 

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If rear grip fell off a cliff quickly then you need to get it properly set up with a quality shock as others have mentioned (Ohlins Penske, etc).

I have a Gen IV with all Ohlins set up for my weight and a Dan Kyle 0% rear link and its fantastic. When the rear tire loses its best grip (lets say 2-3 hard sessions), drive grip is diminished but its still possible to turn decent lap times for another 3-4 sessions.

BTW, if you want to see what a Gen IV is really capable of, check out this vid:
 

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BTW, if you want to see what a Gen IV is really capable of, check out this vid
Not really, looks that his pace is over 10s slower than pro rider.
In this video rider on Gen4 bike with normal Ohlins suspention is somewhere 7s off from WSBK pace.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NINaU_H54Ps

If your lap time is over 120% of the pro rider time (with similar power bike) then your slicks cool down and tear easy.
Bridgestone V02 medium handles low pace better than Pirelli/Metz SC and Pirelli moves arround more causing avg. trackday rider to be scared.

There is nothing bad or ill with Gen4 compared to S1000RR on race track unless some setting as way off. With shock fixed any fast rider will turn good laptimes.
I spent too much tweaking the bike, now I concentrate only training myself (motocross helps alot).
 

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Bridgestone V02 medium handles low pace better than Pirelli/Metz SC and Pirelli moves arround more causing avg. trackday rider to be scared.
I really like the Bridgestone track tyres...I just use R10s at the moment, but find they give so much corner speed confidence.

So you motocross for training?

I was looking to do some flat track for winter training.
 
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