Kawasaki ZX-10R Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I guess Michelin had a pretty spectacular rear tire failure on Loris Baz' bike, it blew out on the front straight while testing. They are now pulling the "soft" compound tire from testing.

No one was hurt. Video is on youtube somewhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,624 Posts
Yes Baz's suit recorded a 29.9 g impact on his shoulder. Michelin has a lot of homework to do if their going to make a tire that will work in Motogp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,976 Posts
Didn't see the video ... did see a still of the tire...

I'd be blaming Michelin... Can't believe the tire was under-inflated to a lower pressure than is a race pressure.

And ... I've never seen a failure like that.
 

·
The Pace
Joined
·
6,934 Posts
yeah, pro guys often hate Mich for a list of reasons. Usually psi pressure is sensitive. Mich corp got frustrated and pulled out of pros awhile back if I recall.
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
Joined
·
13,630 Posts
It was the rear tire that failed.

Frankly, it's nothing new. Akira Yanagawa had a tire fail at 180+ mph and wadded the ZXRR Motogp bike years ago. Dunlop has had catastrophic failures in AMA at Daytona. It happens when they are trying to get the tires figured out and what pressures to run. It's all part of the process. A scary one for the riders for sure. And luckily no one has been seriously injured by it. But the process will continue and get sorted out and fixed. Michelin isn't a fly-by-night retreaded tire. They were the premiere tire supplier back when it was a competition and just need to get back in the game with these new bikes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
It was the rear tire that failed.

Frankly, it's nothing new. Akira Yanagawa had a tire fail at 180+ mph and wadded the ZXRR Motogp bike years ago. Dunlop has had catastrophic failures in AMA at Daytona. It happens when they are trying to get the tires figured out and what pressures to run. It's all part of the process. A scary one for the riders for sure. And luckily no one has been seriously injured by it. But the process will continue and get sorted out and fixed. Michelin isn't a fly-by-night retreaded tire. They were the premiere tire supplier back when it was a competition and just need to get back in the game with these new bikes.
Tire pressures are critical when you get to the low or high end of the range. That's why those guys get paid the big bucks.
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
Joined
·
13,630 Posts
Tire pressures are critical when you get to the low or high end of the range. That's why those guys get paid the big bucks.
Yes, Tire pressures are crucial. I'm sure they have baselines and calculations they go by to determine the tire pressures to start with. But there are tons of variables and data is the the key. They may have been experimenting with outlier pressures to see the response. Or Baz's riding style is that much different than the others who didn't have a problem and overwhelmed the tire, the bike wasn't setup properly and over stressed the tire, it could've developed a leak, had a manufacturing defect, he ran over some debris on track that compromised the tire, or it simply was a fluke. Considering no one else had a tire problem like this and that there hasn't been any concrete evidence of what the problem was, it's only speculation of why it failed so dramatically.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yes, Tire pressures are crucial. I'm sure they have baselines and calculations they go by to determine the tire pressures to start with. But there are tons of variables and data is the the key. They may have been experimenting with outlier pressures to see the response. Or Baz's riding style is that much different than the others who didn't have a problem and overwhelmed the tire, the bike wasn't setup properly and over stressed the tire, it could've developed a leak, had a manufacturing defect, he ran over some debris on track that compromised the tire, or it simply was a fluke. Considering no one else had a tire problem like this and that there hasn't been any concrete evidence of what the problem was, it's only speculation of why it failed so dramatically.
Design flaw is one other possibility. Or debris on the track (think "Concord"). Or improper installation or a problem with the bike that developed.
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
Joined
·
13,630 Posts
Design flaw is one other possibility. Or debris on the track (think "Concord"). Or improper installation or a problem with the bike that developed.
A design flaw I'd expect to see more than one rider having an issue with it. That could be due to the fact that the other riders were restricted from the soft compound after the incident, but my understanding was Baz was not the first rider out on the soft tire. He was just the first to have a problem with it. So with a wide-spread design flaw in it you'd expect to have a higher sample group with problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
A design flaw I'd expect to see more than one rider having an issue with it. That could be due to the fact that the other riders were restricted from the soft compound after the incident, but my understanding was Baz was not the first rider out on the soft tire. He was just the first to have a problem with it. So with a wide-spread design flaw in it you'd expect to have a higher sample group with problems.
Ever see "No Highway in the Sky" with James Stewart and Marlene Dietrich?:wink:

Might be a similar scenario.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,611 Posts
Tire carcass delamination due to incorrect tire pressure is not really uncommon even at the pro level. They will try anything and everything to get an advantage and some times it does not work.




yeah, pro guys often hate Mich for a list of reasons. Usually psi pressure is sensitive. Mich corp got frustrated and pulled out of pros awhile back if I recall.

Rossi won 5 of his 7 premier class championships on Michelin tires. They did not pull out due to frustration they were forced out due to rule changes. Michelin used to make tires on Saturday to the exact conditions of the racetrack and have them flown in for the race on Sunday and they were damn good at it. It could even be argued that much of Rossi's domination in those days was due to the special made Michelin tires just for him. Once he had to start riding on Bridgestone tires that were the exact same as everyone else on the grid his days of coming back from a 15 second ride through penalty and blitzing the field at will were over...

At any rate when the rules changed and Michelin were no longer allowed to custom make tires as needed the Bridgestone tires which worked better in a much broader range of conditions became the favorable choice. Soon after the spec tire rule was adopted and Bridgestone became the supplier and they had issues along the way as well. Now that Michelin is the Spec Tire supplier for the first time in 8 years they will have some hurdles to jump as well here & there, but I am hesitant to say that this instance with Baz was their fault.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,624 Posts
Tire carcass delamination due to incorrect tire pressure is not really uncommon even at the pro level. They will try anything and everything to get an advantage and some times it does not work.







Rossi won 5 of his 7 premier class championships on Michelin tires. They did not pull out due to frustration they were forced out due to rule changes. Michelin used to make tires on Saturday to the exact conditions of the racetrack and have them flown in for the race on Sunday and they were damn good at it. It could even be argued that much of Rossi's domination in those days was due to the special made Michelin tires just for him. Once he had to start riding on Bridgestone tires that were the exact same as everyone else on the grid his days of coming back from a 15 second ride through penalty and blitzing the field at will were over...

At any rate when the rules changed and Michelin were no longer allowed to custom make tires as needed the Bridgestone tires which worked better in a much broader range of conditions became the favorable choice. Soon after the spec tire rule was adopted and Bridgestone became the supplier and they had issues along the way as well. Now that Michelin is the Spec Tire supplier for the first time in 8 years they will have some hurdles to jump as well here & there, but I am hesitant to say that this instance with Baz was their fault.
If you remember Rossi caught a lot of flack for switching to the Bridgestone tires mid season because he felt his rivals had an advantage. Michelin has a lot of catching up to do. They have been out of it for a long time and a lot has changed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,611 Posts
If you remember Rossi caught a lot of flack for switching to the Bridgestone tires mid season because he felt his rivals had an advantage. Michelin has a lot of catching up to do. They have been out of it for a long time and a lot has changed.
Again, the advantage to Bridgestone was because the rules no longer allowed the tires to be special made and flown in the day of the race.

The riders were only allowed to use the tires available from the preexisting allotment. The truth was the Bridgestone tires as a whole did not work as good as the custom made Michelins, but they were way better than Michelins that were not made specifically for the conditions of the track.

The Bridgestone tires worked well in a wide range of temperatures and asphalt aggregates and they had some diverse requirements that they could fill with the assortment they brought to the track, while the very focused Michelins worked exceptionally awesome in very specific conditions only. Outside of those very specific conditions the Michelin tires did not work well at all.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top