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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone checked their Main TPS output voltage?
I recently installed a PCV on a 04 with Autotune. I calibrated the TPS in the PC software then checked the output voltage at the ECU and the TPS connector. At the ECU and connector I read .630 VDC closed throttle and 3.900 VDC wide open.
On the PC programme, when calibrating the TPS, the software reads the same values.

The sensor supply voltage is 5.010 VDC.

However the manual states at wide open it should read 4.62 VDC.

I have tried a different ECU and another throttle body. With all combinations I continue to read 3.6 VDC.

I hope the manual is incorrect. Otherwise the ECU must be seeing, at actual 100% throttle, that I have only asked for ~75% throttle.

Everything else about the PCV, throttle action, etc is perfect. I would not have known about this situation unless I had checked.

I have checked the main butterflies and they are 100% open, no restrictions.

So, if any of you guys have either a PC3 or PCV installed, can you check the TPS calibration screen to see what your full throttle reading is?

I hope you all tell me it reads around 3.9** .http://zx-10r.net/forum/images/smilies/smilies/dontknow.gif
 

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did some work on some tb's main flie shaft, removed tps, reinstalled, and recalibrated. set and ckd with dc voltmeter. also rechecked when installed nos mini tps activated. adjusted tps to .65 v at idle, voltage rose as throttle turned to 3.95 at wot. both times. 3.90v is correct. tps rising voltage also controls ignition timing advance.
 

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Bloo Moderator
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Thanks for that. I guess the manual is either wrong or at best ambiguous.
First 2 things:

1. The Throttle sensor can not be adjusted like in the factory it has already been set with precision(very Expensive Equipment) at the factory that's why many have to replace their throttle bodies when their bike goes into "Limp Mode" do a search :badteeth:

2. Be care full how you read the Voltage in this case I believe it's best to buy or create the exact harness the manual states is needed sensing Real Voltage can be tricky and create false readings.

Bloo
 

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Discussion Starter #5
First 2 things:

1. The Throttle sensor can not be adjusted like in the factory it has already been set with precision(very Expensive Equipment) at the factory that's why many have to replace their throttle bodies when their bike goes into "Limp Mode" do a search :badteeth:

2. Be care full how you read the Voltage in this case I believe it's best to buy or create the exact harness the manual states is needed sensing Real Voltage can be tricky and create false readings.

Bloo
I don't intend on touching the Sensor, although it doesn't look like much to alter. By turning the sensor, I would only adjust the low and high readings but do nothing for the span.

I agree reading lowish readings can be misread easily.
In this case reading the same Voltage at the ECU, at the connector and on the PC software with both of the other ECU and Throttle Bodies I had with me indicates, to me at least, I have the correct measurement.

With both of the throttle bodies I checked, I have come to the conclusion it is the span of ~3 VDC that is important rather than the exact upper and lower Voltage. The span on each were within 0.115 VDC of each other.
Just a guess though.

This contradicts what the manual states as the span would be ~ 4 VDC.

If you get a chance, if you still have your 04-05, let me know what you find.
 

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disagree there blu, tps voltage easily ck'd and reset to factory specs. BUT, i strive to give good info and did not for NZder's 04. just dawned on me that the results i gave were for 07 (my son's bike) that i removed and replaced, not my 04. the volts i stated are correct by the manual for the 07 and 04 manual states different volts at idle and wot. my 04 has had secondary tps removed, but main tps has never been touched. will ck input volts and rising rate output volts and post results tomorrow. this should help. sorry for wrong iformation NZder.
 

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Bloo Moderator
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disagree there blu, tps voltage easily ck'd and reset to factory specs. BUT, i strive to give good info and did not for NZder's 04. just dawned on me that the results i gave were for 07 (my son's bike) that i removed and replaced, not my 04. the volts i stated are correct by the manual for the 07 and 04 manual states different volts at idle and wot. my 04 has had secondary tps removed, but main tps has never been touched. will ck input volts and rising rate output volts and post results tomorrow. this should help. sorry for wrong iformation NZder.
I gather you disagree on the adjustment only correct?......If so I you may have got lucky if you messed with that again just check this site out many have TB s went into limp mode because of wrong voltage.......I can tell you at my work just a few weeks ago I fixed a problem where sense voltages where being read at the Voltage source not at the end point.......results thousands of dollars being spent because of false readings and lucky by replacing parts because they worked better at the false limit........ after my fix to tap at the end of the Unit now maybe 10k in just a few years will be saved and now the test fixture is measuring like it should.....I know a few things about measuring. :wink:

Bloo
 

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Discussion Starter #8
disagree there blu, tps voltage easily ck'd and reset to factory specs. BUT, i strive to give good info and did not for NZder's 04. just dawned on me that the results i gave were for 07 (my son's bike) that i removed and replaced, not my 04. the volts i stated are correct by the manual for the 07 and 04 manual states different volts at idle and wot. my 04 has had secondary tps removed, but main tps has never been touched. will ck input volts and rising rate output volts and post results tomorrow. this should help. sorry for wrong information NZder.
Hey, no problem.
I hope you find the results to be identical to what you stated for the 07.

Looking at the sensor, I don't believe there would be much to adjusting it.

Can you recall if the span stayed the same when you adjusted the sensor?

As long as the actuation of the wiper was linear the span between the upper and lower voltage points should stay the same.

Even if the Input voltage changed the span would be consistent.
 

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Bloo Moderator
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I don't intend on touching the Sensor, although it doesn't look like much to alter. By turning the sensor, I would only adjust the low and high readings but do nothing for the span.

I agree reading lowish readings can be misread easily.
In this case reading the same Voltage at the ECU, at the connector and on the PC software with both of the other ECU and Throttle Bodies I had with me indicates, to me at least, I have the correct measurement.

With both of the throttle bodies I checked, I have come to the conclusion it is the span of ~3 VDC that is important rather than the exact upper and lower Voltage. The span on each were within 0.115 VDC of each other.
Just a guess though.

This contradicts what the manual states as the span would be ~ 4 VDC.

If you get a chance, if you still have your 04-05, let me know what you find.
Resistance changes voltage.....V=I R :wink:

Bloo
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I gather you disagree on the adjustment only correct?......If so I you may have got lucky if you messed with that again just check this site out many have TB s went into limp mode because of wrong voltage.......I can tell you at my work just a few weeks ago I fixed a problem where sense voltages where being read at the Voltage source not at the end point.......results thousands of dollars being spent because of false readings and lucky by replacing parts because they worked better at the false limit........ after my fix to tap at the end of the Unit now maybe 10k in just a few years will be saved and now the test fixture is measuring like it should.....I know a few things about measuring. :wink:

Bloo
Was the ECU entering limp mode because of poor adjustment/measurement, of the TPS or because the TPS was faulty?
 

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Bloo Moderator
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Was the ECU entering limp mode because of poor adjustment/measurement, of the TPS or because the TPS was faulty?
First of all lets be clear we are talking Gen 1 ONLY here and the TPS not the secondary who cares many remove that anyway for one reason or another.

Now most over the years was the NO messing with the bike at all they just went bad maybe out of spec so yeah faulty. I don't believe you have a problem just reading into the manual and not measuring like it stated you should....... and like us when we hook up our PCIII or PCV we don't understand why we are not getting the same as the manual :wink: ...I have 2 spare Throttle bodies in my garage because I know it may be critical for the 1st Gens at least and at $2000 New not taking any chances of going into limp mode with out the right equipment to adjust. :badteeth:

Bloo
 

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Just for information, I found this part number (21168-0022) for the 04-05 TPS off another site. I have not checked if it is legit, but if it is and others want to buy and try to set their own TPS up rather than purchase second hand throttle bodies with an unknown history.
 

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Bloo Moderator
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Just for information, I found this part number (21168-0022) for the 04-05 TPS off another site. I have not checked if it is legit, but if it is and others want to buy and try to set their own TPS up rather than purchase second hand throttle bodies with an unknown history.
If you have the time to mess how to set the TPS it's better but Kawi doesn't even allow their Dealers to mess with them I suspect there is a reason :wink: I can get TBs for $200 or much less most times. :wink:

Bloo
 

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If you have the time to mess how to set the TPS it's better but Kawi doesn't even allow their Dealers to mess with them I suspect there is a reason :wink: I can get TBs for $200 or much less most times. :wink:

Bloo
I tend to agree with you. Buying the complete TB gets you a few spare parts as well.

So, are you saying you have encountered this situation of a differing voltage output from some TPS's as well?
If so what was the average reading for WOT?
 

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Bloo Moderator
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I tend to agree with you. Buying the complete TB gets you a few spare parts as well.

So, are you saying you have encountered this situation of a differing voltage output from some TPS's as well?
If so what was the average reading for WOT?
No NZ I have never encountered this condition but remember I have been on this site since 2004 I read many threads before I concluded when a TB goes bad no messing with the sensor also Kawasaki concluded that as well they won't even include an instruction to adjust the TB :wink: ......I have done voltage readings before when setting up my Datalogger I dont remember the #s but also don't remember the differences from the manual but that is probably because I wasn't looking it wasn't in Limp mode. :wink:

Bloo
 

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Ill check mine tomorrow and see what it reads. I have an 05 with a PCV from a Gen 3.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ill check mine tomorrow and see what it reads. I have an 05 with a PCV from a Gen 3.
Thanks -OP-.
Have you gone the Autotune route yet?

I only installed my Autotune module yesterday and I'm off to the track tomorrow.
 

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Thanks -OP-.
Have you gone the Autotune route yet?

I only installed my Autotune module yesterday and I'm off to the track tomorrow.
Nah. I popped on a Wideband Commander 2 and LCD-200 combination. It will still do Autotune though. I can constantly monitor my AFR and such, and it allows me to datalog and more at this point. I wanted to learn how to tune myself, so this was a better path.
 

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ten's tps sensor is installed in a variable position tb design, not a set one position design as many bikes have. not integral to tb's it was installed and calibrated to specific initial voltage setting. field of resistance within spec, wot results in output voltage within spec. internally, this simple, either good or not. externally, it can be removed, reinstalled, set to the exact initial voltage specified as original installation. bad idea to randomly move tps sensor as read a cpl of threads on forums where guys were suggesting reseting tps until rpm at idle increased to 2k on bikes. my tuner cks tps values on throttle position tunes and seldom needs to, but adjusts if out of spec. to see if can be brought to spec. i have the spec's and i have the voltmeter, also not my first time, not messin with anything, just resetting, no luck required.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ten's tps sensor is installed in a variable position tb design, not a set one position design as many bikes have. not integral to tb's it was installed and calibrated to specific initial voltage setting. field of resistance within spec, wot results in output voltage within spec. internally, this simple, either good or not. externally, it can be removed, reinstalled, set to the exact initial voltage specified as original installation. bad idea to randomly move tps sensor as read a cpl of threads on forums where guys were suggesting reseting tps until rpm at idle increased to 2k on bikes. my tuner cks tps values on throttle position tunes and seldom needs to, but adjusts if out of spec. to see if can be brought to spec. i have the spec's and i have the voltmeter, not messin with anything, just resetting, no luck required.
From what I see installed, and what you are saying, that all makes sense.

I hope I don't need to adjust it.
In fact I don't believe adjusting it will work in my case anyway.
As I said earlier, I don't think the span will change.
My lower limit is bang on. To satisfy the manual requirements, I need to raise the upper limit only.
I suspect the way it is, is the way it is suppose to be. I just need others to check their setups to confirm my suspicions.

I appreciate your input.
 
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