[giszo]

I have a KIT ECU fitted to my bike a few days ago, but ran into a few problems while trying to adjust the stock (actually empty) fuel maps to have some not-that-weird AFR curves.

A good friend of mine is running a local DynoJet tuning shop, so he has some knowledge about tuning bikes like this, but unfortunately not much (okay, I think actually ZERO!) people have knowledge about the KIT ECU tuning here at Hungary. We tried to do our best, but I am still not satisfied with the results, so I am here to ask some help.

The best docs I could find about KIT ECU and tuning was the following: Kawasaki KRT kit ecu tuning Factory Pro
Unfortunately it was written for an older bike, not having ETV, IMU, TC, and all that fancy hardware...

I know that tuning the 2016 ZX-10R KIT ECU might be a bit tricky because the ETV opening might differ from the actual throttle grip position. To overcome this situation, we tried to use the built-in logging feature of the KIT software, so we had some information about actual ETV opening on the lower rev. ranges before the ETV actually matches the actual grip position.

Attached the fueling map that is currently on the bike for "Comp. Map for Injection #1, #4". The compensation map for injector #2, #3 are the exact same.
The other picture is the output of a WOT (100% throttle all the way) pull with actual AFR measurement.
My biggest concert is about those rich spots around 6000-7500rpm and 8500-10000rpm. A decent amount of fuel (around -10 to -15) has been removed already, as you can see in the maps. Should we pull a little more, or there is something we are doing wrong? :dontknow:

 

[Neonmarine]

Where is your sniffer for the AFR? Also, ignore the ETV for now, get that fuel graph level first.

Did you remove the AIS valve and install block offs?

A list of motor modifications would really help too.

 

[giszo]

Where is your sniffer for the AFR? Also, ignore the ETV for now, get that fuel graph level first.

The AFR sniffer was put into the end of the exhaust. The usual DynoJet air-pump based one was used.

Did you remove the AIS valve and install block offs?

Yep, block offs are installed. Pump is removed, the KIT harness does not even have a connector for that.

A list of motor modifications would really help too.

The bike is more-or-less a stock one. Running the stock air filter, stock headers, catalytic converter still in place, and an Akrapovic slip-on muffler.
No mechanical modifications to the engine.

EDIT1: I am worried about the ETV, because for a WOT pull, the first time the ETV actually gets 100% open is around the 8000-9000rpm range. This is definitely something that needs to be checked while writing the fuel maps, but correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT2: Another change I was considering to rewrite the actual throttle positions in the map, because the higher range now only has 50%, 75% and 100%. Don't know whether having more resolution up there (50%, 60%, 80%, 100%, for example) would help anything on the tuning.

 

[Neonmarine]

The AFR sniffer was put into the end of the exhaust. The usual DynoJet air-pump based one was used.



Yep, block offs are installed. Pump is removed, the KIT harness does not even have a connector for that.



The bike is more-or-less a stock one. Running the stock air filter, stock headers, catalytic converter still in place, and an Akrapovic slip-on muffler.
No mechanical modifications to the engine.
I would highly recommend pulling the catalytic converter as soon as possible. Your fuel maps will thank you once you go to a full race system

EDIT1: I am worried about the ETV, because for a WOT pull, the first time the ETV actually gets 100% open is around the 8000-9000rpm range. This is definitely something that needs to be checked while writing the fuel maps, but correct me if I am wrong.

The ETV isn't affecting the fuel tuning. The computer sees the TPS and knows exactly how open the TB's are even when the ETV map doesn't match the grip position. Again: this has NOTHING to do with your fuel map issues. Also, think of the ETV as a safety net for over powering the bike at lower revs. If you made it a true 1:1, I doubt any of us mortals would be able to ride it comfortably.

EDIT2: Another change I was considering to rewrite the actual throttle positions in the map, because the higher range now only has 50%, 75% and 100%. Don't know whether having more resolution up there (50%, 60%, 80%, 100%, for example) would help anything on the tuning.

More resolution isn't a bad thing. Go for it, it'll just be more time consuming to tune, but worth it in the end.

Comments above...

 

[giszo]

Regarding the cat. converter, I will upgrade to a full race system over the winter. There are 2 track days left from the season, and I would like to get the best out of the current setup. It also makes some preparation for the next season, so I have done most of the trial and error regarding the KIT ECU, and can start the next season with a good basic setup.

Still I need some clarification about the injection compensation maps in the KIT ECU. The vertical axis is the TH [%], indicating throttle, I bet. As none of the tuning manual and the application itself have been really helpful about what it actuall means, until this point I thought it relates to the ETV opening angle.

So my question is, when you do a dyno pull at a constant throttle GRIP position - lets say 80% -, what parts of the injection compensation map do you update based on the measured A/F mixture ratio? Do you change only the row that matches the throttle GRIP position (the 80% row in this example), even in the lower rev. ranges?

The current map was not made in this regard. We thourgh the TH [%] is related to the actual ETV opening, that certainly did not match the actual grip position in the lower rev. ranges. This might be an error in the method we used before...

 

[Neonmarine]

The TH% column is the "real" throttle position. So look to the ETV map for this number and make corrections based on that, not the GRIP POS.

 

[giszo]

The TH% column is the "real" throttle position. So look to the ETV map for this number and make corrections based on that, not the GRIP POS.

Which ETV map do you mean? All I have that is related to ETV is the "ETV Adjustment Map" for all gears and power modes. These maps are full of 100, so not that useful in this case.

This was the reason why I tried to use the built-in logging functionality of the KIT software, to have some idea about the throttle position to change for a given dyno pull.

 

[Neonmarine]

Send another screenshot of what you're looking at please.

 

[giszo]

Attached the ETV related screenshots. That is all I see right now.

In the meantime, I found the following video about understanding the ZX10R ETV: Kawasaki 2016 ZX10R ETV Guide
The map that the guy is showin in the video is something that I am unable to access through the KIT ECU software.

EDIT: It seems that the map(s) you are referring to is something hardcoded into the race ECU, and Kawasaki did not make it public, even for reading the actual values. As far as I see, the Woolich guys cracked this part of the .bin file, so the Woolich software is able to both read and write them.

 

[Neonmarine]

Yeah that's what was confusing me. The ETV map can't be made a legit 1:1 via the KIT software, even though it looks like it is on your screen shot. I have have the datalogger files to prove it from my KIT ECU.

As for pulling your very rich zones in the fuel map, I'd start mechanical by allowing more air flow to move through the motor. The KIT ECU setup is for full racing situations, so the factory never made the system's "baseline" around the full stock bike. At the very least pull the metal mesh screen off the factory filter (per the KIT manual) and get a decat pipe. This will lean out those areas of your fuel map without you pulling massive amounts of fuel.

 

[giszo]

Yeah that's what was confusing me. The ETV map can't be made a legit 1:1 via the KIT software, even though it looks like it is on your screen shot. I have have the datalogger files to prove it from my KIT ECU.

Those ETV maps can be adjusted from 50 to 100. According to my understanding, 100 means that the ECU will set the ETV to the angle that is coded into that hidden map. If I start to decrease those values, the ECU will decrease the ETV opening compared to the built-in maps.

As for pulling your very rich zones in the fuel map, I'd start mechanical by allowing more air flow to move through the motor. The KIT ECU setup is for full racing situations, so the factory never made the system's "baseline" around the full stock bike. At the very least pull the metal mesh screen off the factory filter (per the KIT manual) and get a decat pipe. This will lean out those areas of your fuel map without you pulling massive amounts of fuel.

I have a K&N filter at home, so might give it a go. Don't want to spend much time (and money) hackin' mechanical stuff on the bike, if it will get a new exhaust system off-season.

Anyway, I am surprised that after spending a ton of money on the KIT parts, it is still a piece of shit (sorry to say that, Kawi!), because there are some important parameters still uneditable. :2bitchslap:

 

[Neonmarine]

Those ETV maps can be adjusted from 50 to 100. According to my understanding, 100 means that the ECU will set the ETV to the angle that is coded into that hidden map. If I start to decrease those values, the ECU will decrease the ETV opening compared to the built-in maps.

Correct. The 50-100 range is a percentage of the hidden KIT map and by changing all cells to 100, you are asking the ECU to run 100% of what the hidden map calls for. So this isn't going to help you with your fuel tuning issue unfortunately.


I have a K&N filter at home, so might give it a go. Don't want to spend much time (and money) hackin' mechanical stuff on the bike, if it will get a new exhaust system off-season.

Anyway, I am surprised that after spending a ton of money on the KIT parts, it is still a piece of shit (sorry to say that, Kawi!), because there are some important parameters still uneditable. :2bitchslap:

I understand your frustration, but look at it this way: you're trying to get a race ECU system to operate efficiently with NON-race components. Kawasaki isn't going to waste time and money developing a kick-ass ETV map or baseline fueling for a STOCK bike. They are going to expect most racers to at minimum install a RACE exhaust. A link pipe is very cheap compared to the $1800 USD you spent on the KIT ECU components. Drop a couple hundred on a decat pipe and start off on the right foot.

Just my 2 cents...

The ZX10R is one the best factory supported superbikes on the market and I promise you, if you bring the bike up to the level Kawasaki intend, you'll quickly realize how good this machine is. Look at the KIT Race Parts as a road map for how KHI designed the bike to work as a racing machine BEFORE dumbing it done with bad gearing, "street" electronics, noise emissions, exhaust emissions, lights and passenger components.

 

[giszo]

Just my 2 cents...

The ZX10R is one the best factory supported superbikes on the market and I promise you, if you bring the bike up to the level Kawasaki intend, you'll quickly realize how good this machine is. Look at the KIT Race Parts as a road map for how KHI designed the bike to work as a racing machine BEFORE dumbing it done with bad gearing, "street" electronics, noise emissions, exhaust emissions, lights and passenger components.

I was not expecting to have a good baseline setup for a stock bike. Having a bit more control over various hidden maps, or at least knowing what the bike does instead of trying to reverse-engineer it, would helped a lot during tweaking various parameters.

I have two more days of riding at the 26th and 29th of September, so getting a decat pipe and trying to do a new tune in this time frame seems to be almost impossible. Not to mention that it might not worth the hassle for two days. :dontknow:

All in all, thank you Neonmarine for all the support. I DO LOVE this bike, and really looking forward to what it is going to become after converting it to a real race bike for the next season. :stir:

 

[giszo]

Is it possible to adjust the fueling per gear through the KIT software?

Went through the available maps a few times, but was unable to find anything relevant...