Kawasaki ZX-10R Forum banner

1 - 20 of 142 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
It lives.... (running supercharger build thread)

First off, I wanted to post all this up once I had it all finished... but I'm just too stoked that it's finally coming all together after so many years. A little back story: Several years ago I got ripped off by a POS named Jason Keats for a supercharger kit while I was still overseas. I tried to salvage what I could from the pile of garbage he sent me, but ended up scrapping every single piece but the fuel pump. It was my first stab at anything forced induction, and I ended up going through college to learn how to weld, machine, and CAD design parts all in the pursuit of getting it done. Went through 2 major moves, a frozen/cracked head, 4 jobs, one heinous ex-wife, and a new baby (recently) to help delay it all from working. In short, it's been the albatross in my fucking garage for over 4 years. :lol: But today I got the first baseline pulls and have The Plan on where to go from here.



Last pic was just a cool shot we took of the shop the night we got the airbox done... we both sat back and just kinda laughed about the range of crap we had up atm. :)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
A stock Gen 3 made mid 140 hp on the same dyno (144 IIRC). This run was at 106 degree air temp and 28% humidity. 5psi of boost on a pretty much stock bike (A&R baffles & -1/+0 gearing). I have a little belt slippage or a small boost leak to figure out, as it should be making around 8-9psi with this pulley combo.... but that's what prototyping is all about I guess; figuring out the little things. :) The plan is to run 8-10psi on this motor, then run 15-16psi on a slightly built motor I have in the garage when the funds become available. Everything is pretty much hand built or shaped: No production quality parts yet. When everything gets perfect I'll go back and make the brackets/pulleys all pretty, but right now it's all about making it work.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,970 Posts
Damn, sorry about the issues you've dealt with, I can definitely relate to a few of them!
But nice job on the 10! Them are some pretty nice numbers! Do you remember what the stock gen 3 put down for torque for comparison purposes? And when are you making a .net priced kit? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
214 Posts
u went to school for welding or to be a nasa engineer...cause nothing u said sounded like welding...sounded more like nasa isht..


and on another note...your funny.


and another note.

DOPE!!! keep this thread up to date.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Man, it feels like NASA shit some days... I tell you what.

Don't know the TQ numbers off the top of my head, but a rough calc would say high 50's to low-mid 60's with that hp depending on where it made peak TQ.

.......and this was such a PITA that I will never build a kit for other people. Ever. Not on this bike. No one should have to suffer the sort of headaches I did to get this to work right. I could/would if I used the smaller C15-60 charger, but making the C30-74 fit required just about everything but the exhaust to be hacked/modified/moved. I'll turbocharge one before I do this again.

But the way it makes power IS pretty cool. I can't wait to get it all ironed out and turned up some more. Next step is to fix the outboard bearing support (fucked it up @ about midnight last night in the mad rush to get it ready for today), and switch over to a cog belt style pulley system. I'm going to do some boost leak testing just to be sure on some things, and my artist friend wants to go apeshit with a paintjob while I have it apart..... we were thinking some HR Giger styled bio-mechanical nonsense would fit the bill. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
Ummm...drool! I know you said you'd never build another, but dang bro, when you build some for us gen 2 guys?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
When I'm done I'll happily tell you everything you have to get it done and make parts at cost for ya..... but there is so much fitting and fab work that goes into it all that it makes it impossible to just sell a bolt on kit. Well, at least for any reasonable price or time-frame. If there were enough orders it could be done, but I think the volume would be higher than the number of lunatic 2nd gen owners currently out there riding. Most people would be happier with a turbo set-up anyway; they feel a lot faster for the same given boost level. But it is neat how it will start to pick up the front tire at the end of a roll-on @ 10K rpm in 4th gear. It just makes more and more and more thrust without ever letting up. It's so creepy/smooth that it actually feels pretty normal up 'till about 10K (in any gear above 2nd), then it just gets, well, "angrier" for a lack of a better word. Haven't had enough room to really explore how stupid it really gets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,028 Posts
man, I am seriously happy for you that this all worked out. With all the stuff youve taught me (good person points), and all the things you went through for it, you deserve to have it. It looks absolutely awesome and you did an incredible job on this. Major props on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
First off.. Good to hear some things are coming together on the positive side for ya.

Now Jason Keats... He used to post up on suzukihayabusa.org. A local guy here in Jacksonville bought one of his kits. I never met him or seen his bike on the road but heard it had fueling issues.

Jason could not give me one reference when I was ready to buy one of his kits but sure could give me a deal if I sent him a deposit! that was almost six years ago. I had a bad feeling and passed.

Looks like a fun ride and nice to see a different type of build -good luck with your project.

Rick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Pardon my piss-poor language, but Fuck That Guy Keats. If I ever run across him I'm going to run his fingers through the chain & sprockets on this bike. At least I learned how a crook acts from that whole ordeal.... won't happen to me again.

Fueling on this bike is good. :) I'm using the Gen 3 injectors @ 42psi base fuel pressure, a 1:1 Turbosmart regulator (-6 feed line and -4 return), the Walbaro 255HP pump, and the PC3/Ignition module/Control Hub combo to fuel it. I'm running the fuel trim/timing trim on the hub off the sending unit for the boost gauge. The bike needs a lot more fuel down low than a turbo bike, but throttle response is very crisp and stock-smooth. I still have secondaries in too... debating on whether or not to keep them in. Duty cycle is getting up there, but I can still add a lot of fuel pressure at this point if I need to make due when I get the boost dialed in. If I had to do it all over again from scratch I'd really think about using AEM's Universal F/IC unit.... it's exactly what you need for this sort of project, and it's cheaper/more compact than all the DJ goodies. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,360 Posts
Look at that torque!!!:thumbsup:

Always wanted a supercharger on my bike, was hoping they'd make a kit for it like the first gens but oh well. I'd just get in more trouble or be dead!

Congrats on gettin her up and goin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
The torque "curve" there is how I can tell that I have a boost leak/slippage issue somewhere. If it was working correctly the "curve" would continue to rise a bit more as the boost started to pile on. The centrifugal charger boost rate actually starts to accelerate as it gets larger... this one was starting to "tail-off" a bit at the end. Still pretty good torque though for such little boost/low base numbers. :) The mad scientist doing the dyno work (KMS Performance in phoenix) and I were breaking down the efficiencies post-dyno, and I was pleasantly surprised. 140ish hp to 190ish (196 was the highest of the day) was a gain of over 50hp (35%) at only 5psi, and that's not counting the 10-15% or so loss for actually driving the compressor.... or the 5 degrees of timing we pulled out just to be safe. :) Spraying a 50/50 water/meth above 3psi probably helps that a bit, though. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Bearing Updates

...new bearings came in today. :) I didn't machine the support properly the first time for the small bearing that's in it in the pics, so when it was pressed in it was a little too tight. Being such a thin bearing (<7mm width), this caused a little bit of 'notchiness" (out of round) and ended up causing premature bearing failure. Upgraded to a thicker bearing and will use the proper mill bit this time to get together, and the shaft will grow to 20mm in diameter from 19mm. Pics for comparison on size: should be much more durable now. :thumbsup:
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Water meth tank

...pics of the water/meth tank and mounting. Took the 1 gallon tank that came with the AEM kit and cut/plastic welded pieces out of it (and moved the filler neck) to get it to fit the contours of the subframe. Cut everything out of the battery tray and just installed it through the bottom between the pipes. First pic shows the basic shape, second shows it all painted black and the modded frame on the solo cowl so that the filler cap clears. I think I'll make the finished product out of sheet aluminum at some point, but it works pretty good as a prototype. :)

Sorry about the crappy cell phone pics.... camera died a while back.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
We don't need no stinkin' gauges...

Well.... just a few anyway. :)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for the positive comments ya'll... I can't even explain how neat it is to walk into the garage at night and see this abomination lurking, and realize that "I DID THAT". Couldn't have done it without the support of a lot of different people on this board, that's for damn sure.

As an update: Got a few new pieces of metal in the mail yesterday. Waiting to hear back from Dan @ A&A for some pulley designs, as I'm switching from those ribbed belts to a cog-style drive belt. I'm going to machine the blanks out of aluminum and send them to him to cut the teeth and hard anodize them. I'm going to try an idea I've been kicking around for a while that a few people have gone to the trouble of validating for me. We're going to spin the charger at it's max. recommended rpm and just use a restrictor plate to keep peak boost in check. Should make for more healthy low-end to mid-range without sacrificing the linear powerband characteristics... and it will make pulley design a lot easier too. :) Now if I can just decide between using 6061 aluminum or 7075? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Update: just got my own lathe and access to a mill to start working on my pulleys. The lathe is a nice little 12x36 Enco geared head my old machine shop used to have. It had probably less than 5 hours on it, but was in desperate need of tooling. Now that I have a good quick-change tool post set up I can run/adjust the right size cutters and boring bars. Game on. :) The mill is a little table mount type guy, but is solid enough to work on projects this size. I need a better variety of cutters for it still, and desperately need an indexing table... but I'm making due on what I have now. Pics later tonight. :) With any luck I'll be able to re-create all of my prototyple brackets out of single piece 7075 someday instead of welding all this 6061 together. I can dream, anyway.

I have a chunk of 6061 for the pulleys. I've decided to drive the charger WFO (1:1 ratio, max recommended speed for this size rotrex). Left alone that should make around 16-18lbs of boost under perfect conditions, but I'm going to run an inlet restriction to try and choke it down to 7-8psi. That should cause the boost "curve" to come on a little more aggressively, but I think it will be manageable (and a bonus for midrange power). When the time comes to run bigger boost on a better motor I won't have to re-pulley... just change the restrictor size. I'll pull the trigger on bigger injectors then too, but the 410cc kawi injectors are doing ok at 43psi base pressure now.

Preview on the machining to come in the next few days. These are blanks that Dan over at A&A Performance is going to cut the teeth in and anodize when I'm done (trying to keep prototype costs down). I am going to change the countersunk hardware to capscrew though, as it's easier to find good grade hardware in the lengths I need. :)
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 142 Posts
Top