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Discussion Starter #1
From the moment I decided I wanted a 10R (pretty much as soon as I heard rumours of it's existence a couple years ago) I knew it had to be a great bike. If they were going to give the 9R the same treatment as they did the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" 6R, it had to be spectacular.

It didn't dissuade me any, of course, the the Ten (along with it's little sixter) made Masterbike that first model year. Yeeeeaahh!

But from reading the motorcycle press over the past few years, and knowing how technology advances, I knew that this would be a short lived victory. Next year there would be something newer, lighter, faster...Should I wait and get next year's model?

Why? It would soon also be yesterday's news.

But then the 10R made Masterbike again, against the newly revised class rival...A rival which incidentally has been the subject of (exagerrated??) reports of frame weakness, which led me to postulate the following:

In purchaseing the 10R we well may have invested in the pinnacle of motorcycling performance for the forseeable future, at least as value for dollar is concerned.

Over the next few years, street/sport bikes probably won't get much lighter, or only incrementally so, as aluminum frames appear to be near their design limit. (Pure speculation based on anecdotal evidence) The other version is that they do continue the present course, through the use of expensive alloys and materials...(more titanium, magnesium? Carbon fiber?)

The short version: Over the next couple years bikes will either stagnate at their current levels of performance, or we will see syrocketing prices....

Am I way off base?
Long live the Master Bike! (maybe with a stock steering damper and a new tach....)
 

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I think we could be very close to the pinacle at this price point. You can start to see that the very limits of design have been pushed. We could argue all day about the gixxer frame failures, 10's pegs or air damns...its bound to start happening for all manufacturers as we chase the lighter is righter philosophy.

What is amazing to me is that the pricing between a liter bike and the 600's are so close. I think we might start to see that gap widen. I bet we see liter bike jump into the 15k range touting new frame design processes(Yammies vaccuum casting??), and maybe some trick suspension or other goodies to justify the price points.
 

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I was wondering about that too. How much further can engineers go without alot of compromises or a substantial price increase? maybe we're in the "muscle car" era of sport bikes?
 

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So far only the 'Zook has titanium valves. I expect lighter valves and higher redlines to be in our future. Due to launch problems, 1/4 mile ETs won't come down much, but trap speeds will go to 160mph.

I can hardly wait for a first gear that goes to 110mph.
 

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Composite frame/body materials, titanium forks and fork springs, lighter forged alloy wheels, denser (smaller) batteries, better-conducting wiring in the starter/alternator and lighter magnets mean smaller alternators and less HP loss as well as less mass, carbon brake discs.

I think we have some room to go. As all the above become mainstream manufacturing processes, the price drops - the more that the bike makers order, the faster the price drops.

I WOULD like to see a voluntary minimum frame weight standard for Al alloy frames that the big 4 stick to.
 

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We may be in the ERA of the best bikes technology can buy right now but we aren't getting to be that much of a better rider.None of us has ever jumped on a technologically superior bike and transformed into Matt Maladin or Valentino Rossi! If the Manufacture's would help implement safety gear technology, such as the airbag vest or the Anti flip device for us squids,Well insurance will surely go down with the invention of those types of things on stock bikes.The tiered license idea from europe isn't exactly a bad idea either. I just worry that I may be able to get the baddest bike around(which I have now) but I won't be able to afford the insurance on it because of the high mortality rate associated with the industry.Newbes need practice and training and if they don't get it ,WE PAY! Somewhere we pay! I still can't wait for the newest stuff to come out though. I am a technojunkie when it comes to ideas about new performance stuff. I don't need this stuff but I like to look at it and wonder how the Engineers came up with the idea!
 

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I really need to get out of the house
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Captain Jack said:
So far only the 'Zook has titanium valves. I expect lighter valves and higher redlines to be in our future. Due to launch problems, 1/4 mile ETs won't come down much, but trap speeds will go to 160mph.

I can hardly wait for a first gear that goes to 110mph.
I believe the 10R and 6R had the ti valves first.
 

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I say YAHOO to the first manufacturer who offers a High Performance Riding Course for any liter bike owner...how about a discounted or free Level I at Keith Codes Superbike School...BMW did this with their cars...
 

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The ZX10R has titanium exhaust valves.

For folks that have been around a while ... a previous iteration of Kawasaki ZX1000-series was also regarded as the "pinnacle of motorcycling performance". That was the original ZX10 (no R). That was ... 1988.

Having said that, I do believe that we are much, much closer to the structural limits for durability than it was back then. It could be argued that the improvements in performance have been incremental since roughly 1998 (first generation R1). Some would argue that the improvements have been incremental since 1993 (first Fireblade). I don't see this changing.

What I think we'll see next are improvements in emission control (legislated) and safety (possibly ABS - Honda has indicated that they are going this route - whether this will actually improve road safety is another matter).

I don't really need a faster bike than this. (It could be argued without much difficulty that nobody does.) What I'd LIKE to see are more adjustability in hand/foot controls for better comfort and ergonomics, better fuel consumption and range, and improved resistance to tip-over and minor crash damage built into the original design.
 

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The biggest problem is that fact that the manufactuerers need big sales to justify adding new technology.

This is all well and good, but big sales(at least here in the US) are driven by the magazines writing articles saying which bike is fastest. As long as the manufacturers are focused on driving bike sales by saying we are the lightest and fastest we wont be seeing any of the aforementioned improvements IMHO.
 

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There is always big debate over technology "barriers" and speculation about "pinnacles". The fact is that technology will continue to march on. You never know when someone trying to improve one completely unrelated product finds a solution the revolutionizes many industries.
 

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I was kinda thinkin about this too. I was gonna start a thread on it but never really got around to it.


I was thinking way ahead! Wondering what sportbikes will be like in 10-15 years from now? What do u guys think? In 2015 or 2020 will our bikes be flyin around and shit? What 300mph speeds??? How much further can they push the envelop? I mean if u ask me, when they first released the Hyabusa back in '99 i was blown away! 6 years later and that thing still looks futuristic! How much lighter can these things get? Itz krazy!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The technology to make them lighter and faster is already here. I'd just rather not pay Ducatti prices for a Kawasaki... You gotta admit: The abso-F#@%ing-lutely ridiculous performance these bikes give up is a BARGAIN compared to a similar performance 4-wheeler. The fact that they do it reliably and on pump gas is sheer alien technology.
 

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I think Yammie has the good for the future and everyone will soon be licensing thsi new techology....

"The introduction of this new technology to the manufacturing process can result in about a 30% reduction in part weight and 80% reduction in the number of parts necessary. Furthermore, the reduction in the amount of aluminum used and the simplification of the manufacturing process will bring an estimated 30% reduction in cost compared to the conventional die casting method. And, because it does not require specialized aluminum alloys, this technology can be readily transferred to overseas manufacturing bases on the condition that the metallic molds be changed as well. "

read whole article here:

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global/news/2002/02/05/innovation.html
 

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I'd like to see a 1200 with a dry weight of less than 425 pounds, as much or more peak power as the 10, more low-end torque for cruising around town, a wide-ratio gearbox and good handling and ergonomics. The technology certainly exists to do it for less than $15K. That to me would be the ideal street bike, especially if it said Kawasaki on the tank. The 10 actually comes pretty close though. I'm more willing to compromise on the ergos than the power, weight or handling.
 

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i dont think bikes can get much faster as a whole without a bunch of politcal bs. will the governent(and public) put up with a bunch of squids out riding around at 230 mph?
 

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A great discussion. The real question is when will litre bikes be coming standard with Holeshot devices and Winglets - how can we ride down to the shops without them? (I have seen the panigale with winglets).
 

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A great discussion. The real question is when will litre bikes be coming standard with Holeshot devices and Winglets - how can we ride down to the shops without them? (I have seen the panigale with winglets).
Aprillia RSV4's have had the winglets off the showroom floor too. Holeshot device aka launch control aka wheelie control............already here in multiple forms across multiple platforms.
The technology to make them lighter and faster is already here. I'd just rather not pay Ducatti prices for a Kawasaki... You gotta admit: The abso-F#@%ing-lutely ridiculous performance these bikes give up is a BARGAIN compared to a similar performance 4-wheeler. The fact that they do it reliably and on pump gas is sheer alien technology.
Yup. Pure goodness. ++on the reliability. Daily drive something that has the power to weight ratio of a quarter million dollar supercar..........for 20k.
 

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Ummm….I'm all for the discussion. But this thread is over 15 years old.
All the points are still valid though aren't they? Wonder if we'll be having the same discussion in another 15 years.

When the old timers tell me about the "game changers" and how they didn't think it could get better after things like DOHC. Or even stuff we consider to be so simple like gear dogs and shift drums which were cutting edge tech when they were new.

I have to admit, I didn't realize it was such an old post. But it's still funny how so many people (myself included) think we've "peaked" here and there. With the slow death of forums it is nice to discuss once in a while.
 
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