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Discussion Starter #1
I got talked to by an instructor saying that this rider complained about the pass I made at last track day. So you tell me was this to close did I pass to close or perhaps scare this rider.


 

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First ive never done a TD so having said that, i thought it was a real clean pass, it was inside and on the left and even though the vid is short it seems like that rider was swinging wide entering so cant see how you messed with his line. Some people simply dont like being passed:icon_rolleyes:.
Thought TD's were FOR being a little agressive?:dontknow:
 

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Thought TD's were FOR being a little aggressive?:dontknow:
that's racing. and idiots (not you, the aggro meatheads at the track) who think thats what track days are for and i yell at those idiots.

track days are for learning, of your bikes limits and increasing your riding abilities
 

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that's racing. and idiots (not you, the aggro meatheads at the track) who think thats what track days are for and i yell at those idiots.

track days are for learning, of your bikes limits and increasing your riding abilities
:+1: Trackdays are not about being aggressive.

Looked like a clean pass to me as well. Plenty of room given. And it was in one of those areas where it could've been a pass on the outside of the turn you were exiting, or the inside of the next turn. Didn't see anything as a close call.
 

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...maybe shouldnt have said agressive. But more like pushing your limits? See im learning stuff here.
Also, thought there was a rule you can only pass on one side, which looks like the correct one to me on your pass.
Maybe one day i can get to the track <sigh>
 

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Depends on what skill group and the rules outlined by the trackday provider. Take feedback with a grain of salt. I coach and control ride, if your an aggressive rider in a beginner group and don't have good lines I would talk to you. Based solely on the video posted and if you were in a beginner group I would say its borderline. I don't know you or how you ride, but if an instructor talked with you about your riding I have a feeling it's about more than the video posted. If that was in an intermediate group and you have good lines and demonstrate control of your bike, good pass. My $0.02
 

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What happened mid turn? Sounded like the revs completely dropped and the bike stood up. Was there contact? There looked like a little jolt to the camera.

Did the guy complain?

Without context, it looked like you initiated, got beside and then in front of him before the corner.
 

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It's an inside pass with plenty of room, so I would give it:
A.) Beginner group? - Dangerous, beginners are already nervous about being on the track, while the pass itself wasn't dangerous, it could spook someone new to the track when someone suddenly comes into the path they were going to take. Granted, the act itself is not dangerous per say, but the reaction it could cause is.

B.) Intermediate group? - OK. Try not to pass on the inside in intermediate, but if you do, give plenty of room, like you did. I wouldn't bust your balls on it for intermediate, but if you asked me for my opinion, I would probably suggest waiting to pass on a straight or outside of turn.

C.) Advanced group? - Not even worth mentioning. I would consider anything fair game in advanced group as long as it wasn't directly aggressive to the other rider such as stuffing them off the track or something like that.

D.) Racing? - Hell, I've actually bumped into people in turns in racing, it's all fair game as long as it's not trying to kill someone.
 

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I'd like to see it from his perspective.

You passed in a closing window rather than an opening one.

That's to say you put yourself where he was going to be moments later.

Not a problem if you are going to get on down the track but it looked like you stuffed him and then parked it. His view of the pass would tell the story a lot better. I'm guessing he had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.



Here is an example of me making a bad pass in a closing window that ended up with a little contact. It was of no consequence since we both stayed up and had a laugh about it after the session, but it could have been a lot worse.

Jump to 2:38
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Depends on what skill group and the rules outlined by the trackday provider. Take feedback with a grain of salt. I coach and control ride, if your an aggressive rider in a beginner group and don't have good lines I would talk to you. Based solely on the video posted and if you were in a beginner group I would say its borderline. I don't know you or how you ride, but if an instructor talked with you about your riding I have a feeling it's about more than the video posted. If that was in an intermediate group and you have good lines and demonstrate control of your bike, good pass. My $0.02
This was B group perhaps the rider should have been bumped down to C. I don't know. I am open to all feedback as I don't want to upset another rider with a bad pass. I don't believe the instructor saw the pass just said the rider complained. He really didn't make a big deal about it and I did offer to apologize to the rider. He said that wasn't necessary. I have been doing track days for like 10,11 years this was the first time I was ever approached by an instructor for a questionable pass. I normally ride A but lately have had some friends who had asked for some help and really are not up to A yet. This was just a free session where I wasn't doing any instructing. Perhaps its better to have my buddies ask the control riders for help instead of me.
 

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B group - not something I would have a problem with. Looked like you were past him before turn-in. Possibly borderline for C group, but not B, from what I can see on the vid.

From your explanation, doesn't sound like the instructor really had a problem with it. Just having a talk to appease the other customer. Ya know?
 

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Looks like you passed him on the outside and then missed the turn,
passing through the race line slowing hard, more than likely while
he was still on the race line and you would of been right in front of him.

Although the speeds in those couple of turns are moderate to slow,
no harm, no foul. Aggressive, not really.

I think they call that "The Jersey Turnpike Move":icon_rolleyes:
 

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To me, no. You were more than 6 feet away from the other rider. The only thing I would say is that in Intermediate group where I ride there is no passing on the inside in corners. Since you passed in a turn that leads to a turn the other rider may have thought you passed on the inside of the second turn. (Just my thoughts on what the other rider may have been thinking).
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I'd like to see it from his perspective.

You passed in a closing window rather than an opening one.

That's to say you put yourself where he was going to be moments later.

Not a problem if you are going to get on down the track but it looked like you stuffed him and then parked it. His view of the pass would tell the story a lot better. I'm guessing he had to take evasive action to avoid a collision
The next corner entry was not optimum because of the shallow line but I don't believe this rider was carrying enough speed to have to make braking or line adjustments because of my corner entry speed. There was no contact just bumps in the next corner. Here's a bit longer version of it. The rider with the green vest is an instructor. Thanks for all the input perhaps next time I should just back off and wait a bit longer before passing. Interestingly enough on our local website and instructor posted up thanking us for making good passes and riding responsibily. I guess it come down to perspective. :)

 

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This was B group perhaps the rider should have been bumped down to C. I don't know. I am open to all feedback as I don't want to upset another rider with a bad pass. I don't believe the instructor saw the pass just said the rider complained. He really didn't make a big deal about it and I did offer to apologize to the rider. He said that wasn't necessary. I have been doing track days for like 10,11 years this was the first time I was ever approached by an instructor for a questionable pass. I normally ride A but lately have had some friends who had asked for some help and really are not up to A yet. This was just a free session where I wasn't doing any instructing. Perhaps its better to have my buddies ask the control riders for help instead of me.
If A is verry fast, B fast and C slow ?
I don't see what the problem whas for a B group, too me clean pas (slow entry though, maybe becuz of the pass ?). In Belgium (EU) it even wouldn't be a problem in a C (slow) group with this pass :wink:

Are you guy's for real ? When you say you can't pass on the inside or are you kidding me ? And is this a US only thing if it's for real ?

In EU you may pass on the inside and outside regarding the group you're in, if you can get a clean pass you can do the pass.
At noon the ridersgroups can be changed by checking the laptimes if your to slow you go down if your to fast you go up, so you've got to check the papers at noon if your still in the same group :wink: :helmet:
 

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One of the reasons that inside passing is not allowed in the novice group is because beginners are just learning how to follow a race line. If a rider suddenly appears in their path it can spook them. After all, they're still learning how to ride so throwing unexpected variables in the mix is a bad idea.
 

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One of the reasons that inside passing is not allowed in the novice group is because beginners are just learning how to follow a race line. If a rider suddenly appears in their path it can spook them. After all, they're still learning how to ride so throwing unexpected variables in the mix is a bad idea.
Ok i can get that, but if you do a track day you have to know that you will get passed or is my assumption wrong on this ?

Just want to get clear on the novice group, is it a usual trackday A, B, C group or is it a track learning day ?

Bcuz we have it like this:

- Level 1 (learning track day) = first time ever or very very slow entry level riders, no passing allowed and every one gets a chance to ride after a raceinstructor. Learning the track and lines.
- Level 1+ (learning track day) = some what like level 1 but a bit faster and the last session of the day is free (or you can choose for follow up by the raceinstructor if you want) like a normal trackday.
- Level 2 (learning track day) = sort of fast riders progression with a little tire, suspension setup and rider/body positioning and faster lines.
- Racingschool = what it says learning to ride (very)fast(er) with some real racers like Werner Daemen who rode in the WK SSP, endurance and IDM and Steven Casaer racer/suspension and telemetry expert for WK SSP, IDM and endurance teams. You have to be in the consistent minimum laptime to get an entry.

And then you've got the normal trackdays A, B, C and D (in-/outside passes allowed):

A = (licensed)racers/very very fast riders
B = Very fast
C = Fast
D = Beginners

What group or level is a novice in the US ?
 
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