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Discussion Starter #1
Hey All,
I've been reading some threads and stuff on the thin head gasket and cams etc...
So I need to have my valves adjusted so I figure I may as well try and get the gasket etc while they're in there.
This is for my race bike so I'm going to use the kit springs on the intake but I'm not sure if it's worth having the exhaust cams can't seem to find anyone haveing any good numbers using both cams?
I'm paying to have this done so I need to get this done and degreed right the first time.
thanks in advance for any input thanks
 

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The reason you aren't finding info on the race exhaust cam is that people have decided it actually hinders performance in conjunction with the race intake cam. I'd just buy Kawisakis race intake cam and find some numbers on here to have them set at. The cams have adjustable sprokets on them so you can still degree both without buying a new exhaust cam. I would suggest buying Carpenters Valve Springs. They are dual springs that will allow the bike to run better and safer at the high rpms since you do racing. I'm not sure what the prices are in comparison, but shouldn't be too much more.

If you're interested in doing some other things while you have the bike apart... Get Ivan's TRE and a Dynojet timing advance module. I was impressed with how those helped.
 

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Heres my experience, it may differ to others so take it as you like,

1 You dont need different springs on the intake even with the kit race cam

2 You DO need the kit springs in conjunction with kit exhaust cam

3 HP is lost when going from kit intake/kit exhaust with kit springs back to std ex cam(Have found this on 3 occasions with 06 and 04s) against most opinions

4 The different thickness gaskets are for adjusting the piston squish to the desired dimension after the lower surface of the head has been machined to increase compression, not much point otherwise.

5 TRE/ignition module are waste of money and time, if you want to improve the fuel/ignition curve/rpm limit get the race ECU, also can adjust sec butterflies and no fuel cut(which is all TRE does..) from fuel pump, all in one unit- no piggyback items. If you can not tune it on dyno or find someone to, it would be acceptable(but not desirable) to use powercommander/dynojet on top.

6 Cheapest option race kit intake cam in stock location(104 lobe center) Power commander

7 Best option race kit intake cam, race kit ex cam with kit springs, degreed to obtain piston to valve clearance or if no head modification stock at 104 in 100~102 ex, kit ecu.

Good Luck
 

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I'm unsure about the race ecu. I don't know of anyone around my place to tune one either. Therefore I got the PC, Ign Module, and TRE. I guess that works out to about the same price but I can promise those three were no waste of money. When I advanced the timing and put the TRE, my bike turned into a different machine. However the race ecu may be able to push a little more out of the bike. It just seems to be an all in one unit.

As far as valve springs, they are not a necessity... just a good thing to have especially if you are only racing the bike.

I'm unsure about the exhaust cam, I'm only speaking from reading others' posts on that. I'm sure a lot of people wished they could figure out how to make it work since a lot of people bought them originally. Cam settings are one of those trial and error things to figure out where exactly the bike likes it. I'd do some more research on it before ruling it completely out. Maybe technic could give you some advice on where to set it up at. But I have Megacycle intake and exhaust cams with very different cam lobe settings relative to Kawi's race cams.
 

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The difference in using the race ECU is it doesnt have an ignition curve that has been compensating for emissions etc, using the ignition module isnt really the answer either as then you would be trying to compensate on top of that. You can still take advantage of the no fuel cut, igniton curve, sec butterfly rate adjustment using its own software easily yourself then use PowerCommander to tune the fuel injection if needed.

Its depends on your application, if you need the best throttle response for racing then the Kit ECU is the answer IMO.
 

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Let me see if I'm understanding how this works....

So the race ecu does not retard the bikes timing at all? So therefore it give it full advancement throughall all throttle positions and rpms in all gears?

I know the bike definitely has the timing retarded for all the "earth friendly" stuff and it was really holding my engine back. I had a powercommander on and mapped out for my setup. I then put on the TRE and timing module at the same time. I was just going to do the timing module but my tuner (same guy that tunes Ruthless Racing) recommended doing both so that the TRE would give the motor full advancement all the time (in every gear) and then put the timing module on top of that to advance it further. That theory made sense and worked well.

I would like to know more about this race ecu deal although I know I will never do it. They are too expensive and I already have too much $$ in the counterparts. Another reason I did things the way I did was that I was able to buy stuff a little at a time. 300 here... 350 there.... instead of 700 in one pop.
 

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The idea would be to have a more retarded spark at lower RPMs and a more advanced spark at higher RPMs.
All a 'TRE' is, in the kawi application(timing retard eliminator name is a suzuki adaptation) is a fixed resistor that plugs into the gear position switch to give a fixed gear signal 4th or 5th or woteva. Do dyno runs with/without you wont see a difference. It can acheive no fuel pump cut on deceleration with correct gear selected but that is about all.
Im not saying PC/ignition module arent good its just the Race ECU is superior, it uses all the engine sensors to adjust its maps instead of compensating on top for only one set of conditions at the time of tuning.
 

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So the race ECU is somewhat of a realtime programmer? About the timing at low rpms, I think the bike is retarded in the lower rpms in lower gears. You may be saying this, but the TRE is giving the full advance that the computer puts out for any gear at a given rpm. Cause from what I noticed in the first 3 gears or so the bike felt much stronger once the tre and timing module were put on with 3 degree advance on the timing module. I wish I would have done them seperately just to see the difference. I understand on the dyno your peak hp will be the same with or without a TRE. The TRE is just for low end stuff. I would expect to see once I get on the dyno that my low end has more torque/hp if I am thinking about the TRE correctly.

I may go set my timing map in the ign module to 0's so that I see how the TRE is working alone in comparison to running them together.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Can you use the KIT ECU with the dyno jet quick shifter?
I have no one to tune the kit ecu but I might try it out anyway...
 

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Just remember you also need an adapter harness for the std harness or a full kit harness, also need the interface cable and software for ECU/computer for adjustment of the settings/maps.
 
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