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Discussion Starter #1
My race car's engine stopped charging the battery recently. After a few tests, we determined it was the generator (not wiring, regulator/rectifier).

I removed the generator today. Yuck! I'm obviously another victim of the dreaded bad shim.

My engine number is a little hard to read, but appears to be ZX100CE005817. I assume that's a pretty low number, and therefore an early 2004 engine. There's no way to know how many miles are on the engine (but ebay seller said low miles. :rolleyes: :lol: )

I took pictures during the removal. I can post if anyone is interested (but there's nothing really compelling).
 

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Kinda surprised that you aren't running a total lose system, ie battery only. Oh wait, too much electronics, I think I just answered my on question. I was thinking more of the old Formula Ford days. Guess you would have to have a charging system to make sure it stayed running. Bummer the generator failed.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Kinda surprised that you aren't running a total lose system, ie battery only. Oh wait, too much electronics, I think I just answered my on question. I was thinking more of the old Formula Ford days. Guess you would have to have a charging system to make sure it stayed running. Bummer the generator failed.
You're right. There's a bunch of electronics so the generator a nice thing to have. When I discovered the problem at the race track, I considered racing with a fresh battery and no generator. I may have made the 30 min. race distance, but some folks thought it would be iffy. In hindsight, it's good that I didn't try because I surely would have spewed metal throughout the engine (and dry sump system).

I've got a spare engine that I think is a 2005, and therefore safe from the design problem. In another tech thread I've asked someone to confirm. Its number is ZX100CE021107. I certainly don't want to risk running another early 2004 engine.
 

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You're right. There's a bunch of electronics so the generator a nice thing to have. When I discovered the problem at the race track, I considered racing with a fresh battery and no generator. I may have made the 30 min. race distance, but some folks thought it would be iffy. In hindsight, it's good that I didn't try because I surely would have spewed metal throughout the engine (and dry sump system).

I've got a spare engine that I think is a 2005, and therefore safe from the design problem. In another tech thread I've asked someone to confirm. Its number is ZX100CE021107. I certainly don't want to risk running another early 2004 engine.
The only thing I question is if it's a TRUE 1st Gen Generator failure because if it is your engine should be toast from all the threads I read on this forum, if not could it be just a Generator Failure like all bikes can get?

As far as when the Generator failures stopped, I think it was as high as 16k units built..... but not sure we had a thread on this site who posted failures and how many miles. Mine was just over the 10,000 built for the 1st Gens just FYI but I'm sure there where failures above that.:dontknow:

Now for the engine part # you may need to contact Kawi for that to make sure it's an 05 10R engine their website does not address engine part #s or maybe a dealer can help out. :idea:

Good luck and as you probably know already those issues where taking care of in the 05 10R. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The only thing I question is if it's a TRUE 1st Gen Generator failure because if it is your engine should be toast from all the threads I read on this forum, if not could it be just a Generator Failure like all bikes can get?
My hunch is that my failure was typical early 2004 failure. In the picture you can see what I think is the broken shim that was the culprit. I'm not 100% sure, but that's my guess.

I may have discovered it in time to save the engine, but the guts of the gen hosing are pretty scored. I need to see if metal made it to other parts of the engine. It's possible the engine is toast, or at least in need of a complete tear down and inspection.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Three pictures and a question

Here are three pictures of my parts.

The first picture shows what the stator looked liker. It was very stubborn to get out. I had to do quite a bit of prying.

The second picture shows the parts that seemed to have failed. You can see a shim-like thing that is broken.

The last picture is of the block once all of the alternator pieces were removed. Notice how there appears to be some scoring.

My question: Can I simply install a new, good complete altenator and be okay? Or is the block damaged and may cause problems in the future?

Thus far, I have not been able to determine what might have caused the block scoring, because the alternator housing doesn't spin. Maybe that's just the way the block normally looks in that area?

I'm hoping someone with experience can point me in the right direction. I've got a few options and I'm looking for the easiest & cheapest, without being stupid.

Thanks for the help.
 

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Russ, you could always leave the generator off and have a belt driven alternator working of the rear end(pulley on a drive shaft).

I have done this numerous times on race cars and it works just fine , and you can basically run a junk yard alternator to keep the charge up.

The beauty of the remote alternator is that it doesnt work until you are at full chat (basically it charges on the straights).
 

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The only thing I question is if it's a TRUE 1st Gen Generator failure because if it is your engine should be toast from all the threads I read on this forum, if not could it be just a Generator Failure like all bikes can get?

As far as when the Generator failures stopped, I think it was as high as 16k units built..... but not sure we had a thread on this site who posted failures and how many miles. Mine was just over the 10,000 built for the 1st Gens just FYI but I'm sure there where failures above that.:dontknow:

Now for the engine part # you may need to contact Kawi for that to make sure it's an 05 10R engine their website does not address engine part #s or maybe a dealer can help out. :idea:

Good luck and as you probably know already those issues where taking care of in the 05 10R. :thumbsup:

I've read many post on this and i kinda got lost over time, has there ever been a certain ser# that this issue affected??? i have a 04 and no problems yet, "don't remember my number (can't check) i'm doing some training in WV right now"

I remember a post that claimed you could replace the shim with a 05 model shim and prevent this, but i didn't buy mine till june or july and i had a hard time finding a green one( had to go out of state) so i assume mine was a late model 04

Any new info on this, is kawi still picking up the bill on this? if out of warranty, this was a design flaw.
 

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I've read many post on this and i kinda got lost over time, has there ever been a certain ser# that this issue affected??? i have a 04 and no problems yet, "don't remember my number (can't check) i'm doing some training in WV right now"

I remember a post that claimed you could replace the shim with a 05 model shim and prevent this, but i didn't buy mine till june or july and i had a hard time finding a green one( had to go out of state) so i assume mine was a late model 04

Any new info on this, is kawi still picking up the bill on this? if out of warranty, this was a design flaw.

As far as I know there has NEVER been a Certain # on this issue :headshake


Not sure if Kawi is still picking up the tab and doubt they will at this point :dontknow:

look at the post from the fiche on the differences that's all I can recommend....btw over 20k miles on my bike and just over 10,000 built. cross fingers but it's strong and good. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hey, I wonder if I've stumbled upon a way to tell if you have an early or late set up.

On the first generator I removed (the failed one, presumably on an early 2004 engine), the three bolts holding the stator in place were 10mm hex head.

On my spare engine, which may be a 2005, the same three bolts are socket (allen) head.

This is probably not a true indicator, but I do wonder.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Pictures of a non-damaged generator

In the interest of sharing, here are pictures of a good generator when removed.

BTW, in an earlier post I wondered how the block got scored. At the time I did not think the outer housing of the alternator rotated during normal operation but I was mistaken. Now I understand that the middle part is stationary while the outer part circulates around it. When things go wrong (like a shim failure), the outer housing starts to wobble and can make contact with the engine block.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Russ, you could always leave the generator off and have a belt driven alternator working of the rear end(pulley on a drive shaft).

I have done this numerous times on race cars and it works just fine , and you can basically run a junk yard alternator to keep the charge up.

The beauty of the remote alternator is that it doesnt work until you are at full chat (basically it charges on the straights).
That's a pretty neat suggestion. Thanks. I've seen those on race cars, too.

Another benefit if I went that route, I could sell my good alternator for big bucks to some other poor victim. :lol:
 

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Hey waaaaay back in the day Bloo, big daddy and myself wrote a ton of threads up on this. There's all kinds of info on this forum for you. We did a VIN search and all.
We also discovered that while kawasaki is denying knowledge of this porblem, in mid 04 the part number changed for the generator and the new one had a different shim in it. I think either bloo or tread found the microfich that showed the change... Kinda weird that "No knowledge of said problem" however a fix was introduced..... good way to get out of a waranty
 

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Good posting and info. Thanks for the reads.
Only wish Kawi would step up and own up, but I am not suprised.
 

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Sorry to see your motor blown up dude, that really sucks. That was one of the reasons I chose to keep my '05 and make it Bloo rather than buy an '04 already in Bloo. Hope your next motor is an '05. Fingers crossed! :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Picture comparison '04 vs. '05

Below are pictures of my old NFG generator (on right in first picture, top in second picture. You can see the blue from excessive heat) alongside the newer generator that I'm installing.

I can't say for sure that these are actually 2004 and 2005 since I purchased both engines via ebay, but that's my best guess.

I've highlighted a few visible differences. Unfortunately, the differences can't be seen when they are installed in the motor. The only difference I noticed was the external bolt head types (see earlier post #12 in this thread).
 

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that has me scared just cuz i own an 04
 

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Discussion Starter #20
that has me scared just cuz i own an 04
Wish I had some better advice. Only thing I can think of is if you have the engine out, or are doing other semi-major work, it might be worth pulling the generator out just to see if it's old one. It's a pain, though. Buried kinda deep behind starter.

Then again, I think there are plenty of people racking up miles on their 2004's with no problems.

Too bad we don't have a more definitive way to tell if you're at risk or not.
 
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