Hi Ivan, first of all to tell you that´s my pleasure and honour to share a post with one of the best tuners in the US.

ccasion1
Thanks for the compliment - much appreciated !! :smile:
I´m just an amateur, so my posts are based on my own experience on my bikes, but sometimes I cheat a bit (aka "learn" - who doesn´t?) from one of my closed friends who is the best motorcycle tuner here in my country, and of course from other forum members experience whose knowledge is evident :thumbsup:
I do share with you that the CO analyzer is the state of the art way of tuning the AFR. No doubts and I don´t want to argue with that.
But the question now is what is the approach of the wideband based tuning in relation to the CO based?
Wideband sensors work well in cars with catalytic converters when the sensor is located upstream from the cat (due to more even temps and no resonance) and also with turbo applications
(no resonance due to the impeller).
High resonance exhaust systems will make the readings bounce all over the place from the different effects of fresh air entering the exhaust from the back, differences in exhaust temps at part throttle vs. full throttle are just a few of the things that affect the accuracy of it's readings.
The best sensor location is very close to the exhaust port, but this is not feasable for dyno shops.
There is not much difference in the readings when the sensor is put into the muffler or in the collector.... the gas temps and resonance effects are still present in those locations.
This can easily be seen by looking at the maps that are made with these sensors..... the values will bounce all over the place. (the factory programming isn't that far off from a 500 rpm change or a 20% change in throttle position (looking at one cell to the next in the map). Going to the same dyno on 3 different days will give 3 different maps with this type of exhaust sampling equipment.
Load conditions are also an important factor when trying to tune..... too much load will give wrong readings too..... they need to be similar to what the bike sees on the road.... steady state tests are useless because the engine never sees that condition and tuning in this condition will get the bike too lean for max power during heavy acceleration.
The bike's EFI system sensor temps are also important because when the bike gets hotter than it would on the road, all the sensors readings will be different than what the bike normally sees.... adjusting fuel and timing under these conditions will result in a less than optimal result to say the least.
A real EGA is still the most accurate way to tune a bike with a pipe with no cat..... it is just way more time consuming because the analyzer's readings are slightly behind where the engine is at (rpms) so it takes more time to get things matched up and the readings fairly consistent. Most dyno shops want instant readings and don't want to spend a couple of days making adjustments for each bike.
If we disregard the resonance affected areas of the rpm range (dips) would you accept that a
good tuning based on wideband reading will deliver a power curve 99% similar to that obtainable with CO tuning?
No, I would not agree with this.... Not on a bike with no catalytic converter and a high resonance exhaust with high overlap cams... the only part that may come out ok is the upper portion of the power peak at wide open throttle....and only if the tuner understands the whole EFI system as a whole.... tuning to a flat A/F ratio across the board will not work well because this bike's ram air compensation comes from the speed sensor and it should be richer as the bike increases speed on the dyno. All part throttle readings will bounce all over the place due to all the things that affect the wideband's readings... this is evidenced in all the maps that are made with them.
Even external factors like the air exchange and the exhaust gases removal from the dyno room will have extensive effects in the power output. I´ve seen 5% difference between the 2nd and the 10th run, same map, just for rarefied room air.
You definetly need a good ventilation system when tuning.... the fumes make you sick as well :smile:
I know from own experience that a dip/spikes can be solved in an hour just testing slight changes in the ratio (not an r1 dip though..:badteeth
If the dip responds to adding or taking away fuel/timing then it can be smoothed out, if it does not respond to these changes, then it is a trapping efficiency problem.... a different pipe design or different intake length, cam timing may be required help it out.
Regarding same bikes with same mods, I agree that they are pretty similar
being new bikes, and being in the same area.
This is partially correct - I don't agree about the same area or newness. Similar mods = same map :smile:
Factors like total mileage will affect valve timing (
slightly), valve lash, compression, injectors matching, and many people that seek for a map does not go extensively over the bikes maintenence prior to uploading a map, so this factors may turn every bike different from each other with same mods.
I don't agree with this either... :smile:
These are all very small differences that don't add up to much.
People living in other zones, in other altitudes, temperatures and even humidity, other fuels, will not take full advantage of a perfect map obtained in other place, so I´m a big promoter of everyone tuning their own bikes and not expect the best from someone else´s tuning in their owns.