[Leeeeeeeee]

Hello everyone,

I'm here again. I asked about my 2016 ZX10R CCT noise in my last thread:

http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/2016-kawasaki-zx10r-engine-noise-low-rpm-321130.html

This weekend I tried to take the CCT off and see if I can adjust it.

It's really hard to get it out but I made it: I took the big bolt (middle one) out with o-ring first, then loosened the other 2 long bolts. You can see the pictures how it looks. I think it is different from the previous gens.

I found there is a socket deep in the middle hole and I could put a #3 allen key in to rotate it. If rotate clockwise, I can feel it's tightened only after half turn; If rotate counter-clockwise, I can see the pusher/spring got compressed. After I dragged the allen key out the spring bounced back to the original height.

Since I saw the spring always bounced back, I thought maybe this CCT is not really adjustable, so I put it back as it was...

THEN HERE CAME THE PROBLEM:

When I started the bike the CCT noise was gone, but the idling is not very stable. After I twisted the throttle and closed it, rpm cannot drop back to idle smoothly. Then I twisted more and closed quickly, the engine just shut down when rpm dropped.... I repeated to take the CCT off and put it back for 3 times but still couldn't fix the shut down problem.

Maybe it's just a really bad day for me.... : (

So could someone tell me what is the problem? Did I damaged the CCT or what? Or there is something wrong with the cam timing?Please let me know, I do appreciate that. Thank you so much.

By the way, looks like the APE manual CCT is not on market yet... So should I ask dealer to buy a new CCT?

 

[tdh]

Wow, that is different than the GEN4. I've not had any cam chain noise on either my GEN4 or GEN5 to be honest. Now my '08 ZX6Rs on the other hand were REALLY noisy and I did replace the CCT on those bikes. But, as far as it dying when dropping back to idle, my GEN5 would do that as well and there is a thread started by someone else with a similar issue. Might not be CCT related. Actually, I could be wrong about it being different than the GEN4 as I just remembered I've never actually had mine out. It's certainly different than the ZX6R CCT. EDIT: Definitely different part numbers between GEN4 and GEN5.

 

[Leeeeeeeee]

Wow, that is different than the GEN4. I've not had any cam chain noise on either my GEN4 or GEN5 to be honest. Now my '08 ZX6Rs on the other hand were REALLY noisy and I did replace the CCT on those bikes. But, as far as it dying when dropping back to idle, my GEN5 would do that as well and there is a thread started by someone else with a similar issue. Might not be CCT related. Actually, I could be wrong about it being different than the GEN4 as I just remembered I've never actually had mine out. It's certainly different than the ZX6R CCT.

Thank you, I didn't have the dying problem before I touched the CCT, so I'm wondering the problem should from the CCT, I guess... Do you have the link or do you remember the tittle of that thread about the similar issue? I do appreciate.

 

[tdh]

Did you install it properly according to the manual? You don't have the chain too tight do you? Here's the thread about the GEN5 dieing:

http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/new-zx10r-shutting-down-321770.html

There are probably more than one issue being described in the above thread. My GEN5 definitely had a problem not dropping to idle, but actually dieing in certain circuimstances. I haven't had it happen for some time now but I think it was only happening before I got a good tune on the bike after changing my exhaust.

 

[Leeeeeeeee]

Did you install it properly according to the manual? You don't have the chain too tight do you? Here's the thread about the GEN5 dieing:

http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/new-zx10r-shutting-down-321770.html

There are probably more than one issue being described in the above thread. My GEN5 definitely had a problem not dropping to idle, but actually dieing in certain circuimstances. I haven't had it happen for some time now but I think it was only happening before I got a good tune on the bike after changing my exhaust.

I can't find anything about the CCT on manual, so I'm not sure if I should set something in there....I guess maybe it is too tight because I even couldn't adjust the height of the CCT, so I guess I just put it in with the highest position of that CCT pusher... But if it is too tight, there is no way to loose it though... I cannot put a Allen key in there with it on the bike...:frown2:

 

[White Fang]

Here is the deal: just don't start the bike again. If you adjusted the CCT incorrectly there is some possibility the cam timing was shifted and that is bad.

MOST LIKELY YOU HAVE THE CHAIN TENSION EXTREMELY TIGHT AND THE BIKE CANNOT IDLE BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH TENSION AND DRAG ON THE CHAIN. That's why it won't idle, extreme chain tension. Don't run the bike again.

You didn't really have a great reason to try this but you did and it didn't work out. I have done a lot of work on a lot of bikes but there are some things I would not do because screwing up those jobs could be bad. Like transmissions, I don't mess with them, I pull the engine out and drop it off at my master mechanic's shop.

This is just one of those things, you better get the bike to a shop and have it checked out. Don't want to think about what this did to your warranty.

 

[tdh]

I can't find anything about the CCT on manual, so I'm not sure if I should set something in there....I guess maybe it is too tight because I even couldn't adjust the height of the CCT, so I guess I just put it in with the highest position of that CCT pusher... But if it is too tight, there is no way to loose it though... I cannot put a Allen key in there with it on the bike...:frown2:

There is a section on the service manual that covers this. Removing and installing the CCT is extremely easy BUT if you don't do it right you can really mess things up. Download the service manual and read section 5-16.

 

[th3r3ds0x]

Like White Fang said you may want to have the shop look at it. Sounds like you put the CCT in fully extended which would have put far too much tension on the cam-chain. I'm not sure if that would cause it to jump a tooth (doesn't seem like it would) but if it did you could really do some damage if you run the engine. You could try resetting it properly and reinstalling it but like mentioned if your cam-chain has moved you could cause some real damage by running the engine.

 

[th3r3ds0x]

Here is the first page...

 

[heavey]

What is it with you guys always strugling with that CCT come on een little rattle is normal your Bike lives.
Or it,s time for a E-Bike

 

[SkyDork]

Yes, the Gen 5 CCT is a vastly different design than the earlier models. And like White Fang said, if you didn't correctly hold the plunger back with the hex key properly and just reinstalled it, you've FORCED the CCT into the motor. This is BAD! You may have damaged the CCT and/or the chain guide. You've also got so much resistance on the chain that the motor doesn't have enough power at idle to overcome it and is shutting down. Not good!

I've posted threads about manually extending the CCT to make the rattling noise go away, but those don't apply to this new design. So referencing the older threads about the topic won't gain you much.

 

[White Fang]

What is it with you guys always strugling with that CCT come on een little rattle is normal your Bike lives.
Or it,s time for a E-Bike

Wow...I just woke up this morning thinking this exact thing.

NO NOISE is a sign things are TOO TIGHT when it comes to cam chains, valve trains, and counterbalancers. I want to hear a little slap and rattle and ticking at idle; as long as it clears up as the engine picks up normally I have zero worries.

It's like having a baby monitor. It is when you don't hear anything that you should be worrying.

Also a word on service, never attempt any kind of complex work without the service manual and read it first.

 

[turtle1000]

Both my gen 4 and 5 have cct noise at cold startup but it goes away fast. This explains how I feel about completing these projects by myself

 

[White Fang]

I have a five-year warranty. I am not touching my CCT. BTW my 30th Anniversary Gen 4 is all stock, very quiet, has no unusual noise at idle that I have ever noticed. I just ride it, if something breaks, hopefully Kawi will fix it.

 

[turtle1000]

mine is only at initial startup, idle is fine other than first 10 seconds or so where it's a little noisy. I assumed it's the cct adjusting. I wonder if it's too late for me to get warranty on gen 5, I assumed since I'll flash it they'd refuse to fix it anyways

 

[SkyDork]

Guys, this new Gen 5 design is extremely similar to most car CCTs. Lets get the facts straight when talking about it.

It does not constantly adjust via oil pressure or anything else. It's a non-return type, spring loaded, ratcheting plunger. When you start your motor and hear the clanking, the chain is cold and there's little oil in the head. As things heat up and expand slightly and the oil gets up to temp, the noise may quiet down some. But it's also due to the lower idle after the high idle settles. The CCT DOES NOT ADJUST ITSELF DURING THIS TIME. It's spring loaded and if there's enough slack in the chain the CCT will hopefully extend. It there's not, it doesn't move.

Keeping the CCT tight and quiet will keep the cam timing proper. Slack in the timing chain will lead to 2 things:

1) A little slack will cause noise and delay the cam timing slightly and drop the throttle response and power slightly.
2) Too much slack will cause the chain to jump a tooth and fuck up your motor by allowing the piston to contact an open valve

The earlier models could be manually adjusted without too much fuss. I just posted this pic this morning to help a Gen 4 guy in another thread New Guy - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net



The Gen 5 tensioner can be helped out to manually extend, but it's different. You remove the CCT from the motor, reset it the plunger all the way retracted (high potential energy in the spring in this state). Reinstall it into the motor. Hold the crankshaft with a wrench to tension the front run of the cam chain. And then quickly release the CCT plunger with the hex key. This fast release will take up the slack in the cam chain and quiet everything down again. Shouldn't take more than a 45 minutes or so.

I wouldn't let a Kawi tech touch my new bike unless I needed a part replacement. :wink: