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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys, so I did my first ever track day this weekend (at Motorsport Ranch, Cresson, TX; 1.7 mile variation)... and it was TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!! It was so awesome that I don't think I want to ride street anymore, and just go to track days all the time... Now, there is a little problem...

I took my Gen 2 (as it was build as track bike, bought with salvaged frame, my thread about it is here: http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=121905). Even though, I am a noob to track days, it did not take me too long to realize that liter bike is way too much for the beginner like me. Now comes the dilema. I am keeping my Gen 2 for future races (as eventually, I will get good, plus I put too much work into it to just let it go), but I need something else to learn to ride track. So....

comes in 2005 GSX-R 750. That is my street bike that I ride every once in a while. So my question is: what should I do?
1. Do I sell my GSX-R and get something in the 600cc (R6, GSX-R 600, etc)
2. Do I keep it and turn GSX-R into another track bike?

my only concern is that though noticeable, the jump from liter to 750 is still going to be too much for me, where 600 will give me the best chance to learn?
Let me know that you think....
 

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Welcome to the addiction! :eek:ccasion14:

Trackdays are a blast and Cresson is one of my fav Texas tracks. I decided to skip this weekend so that I can do both days at MSRH coming up.

In regards to the bike being too much for you...I'll give my $0.02 regarding the liter bike on the track, but most people will probably disagree with me.

I started riding the track last April on a 2008 CBR1000. I was a bit nervous and really slow, but I had a blast riding TWS. I was slow in the corners and didn't really open up the throttle on the straights so that the faster guys on smaller bikes could pass me (plus it was just a whole lot of acceleration that I wasn't ready for yet) I went back in May, still slow, and began to add more throttle coming out of the corner and slowly getting to full throttle on the straights to get used to what the bike would do.

I went back a few more times and by August I had progressed enough for level 2. My first day in level 2 was at Cresson. It felt great. I was no longer the slow guy and even had guys tell me they were surprised it was my first time in level 2. a few trackdays later I was ready for level 3, albeit a little nervous. But once I got out there I felt comfortable. Since then I've started racing (which required switching to the baddest bike on the market--Gen4 ZX-10R :) well, it didn't require it, but I treated myself to a new bike anyway) and love riding a liter bike on the track.

Now, does that mean I'm saying I couldn't have progressed faster on a 600? No. I'm sure I would have. Just saying its possible to learn on a 1000. I think you'll find you get more comfortable on it faster than you think...but I also think you will learn quicker on a 600--at least that's what everyone tells me. Just saying you don't have to buy a new bike to learn the track. Its up to you though. I know I'd sure love to try a new 636 on the track.
 

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You can learn on a liter bike, but a smaller bike would probably be easier since tthey so easy to flick around.

Turn that 750 into track only and your gen2 to street only! 750 is a great track bike. Very nimble with good power delivery.
 

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I agree with Brad.

Soon enough you'll learn how to limit your wrist and then you go from there. Each new day you'll be braking later and giving gas sooner on a corner. And giving more gas. and going faster.

It's overwhelming at first being out there on a liter bike where really, most of the tracks aren't designed for that size of a bike. But it doesn't mean you can't learn on them, have a great time, and progress.

I'd stick to your current bike for a few more track days at least before getting a smaller bike.

Unless, as zdawg said you could put your own 750 down to the track at no cost.
 

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I'll add...I'm glad I found the track because it keeps me from being a squid and hooligan or hurting myself on the streets. Like OP said, I no longer desire to ride the streets. And when I do, I don't have to go 100+ because I know I'll be back at the track soon.


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Discussion Starter #6
thanks for replies guys... surely, i don't doubt that I will learn sooner or later, I just didn't know how "later" that be. But it sounds that like if I do track days constantly, I will get a hang of liter bike. I just was overwhelmed the first time out
 

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Great insight! Good to see someone else describe the learning curve.

I realized that there was a learning curve, and bike expenses to match, after two not so spectacular trips to the dragstrip on my 10.

So I went the other way! I decided I like just riding around so much that I am not going to drag the bike as much as I wanted to. It helps that I have a dedicated drag car, but have not had time to run it in over a year. Want to avoid another trailered toy. But I wholeheartedly agree with getting as much hot rod fun off the street as possible.

Home repair, car repair, work, bike, waverunner, family, other hotrod projects.

Too many fun things, not enough time!
 

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So my question is: what should I do?
1. Do I sell my GSX-R and get something in the 600cc (R6, GSX-R 600, etc)
2. Do I keep it and turn GSX-R into another track bike?

my only concern is that though noticeable, the jump from liter to 750 is still going to be too much for me, where 600 will give me the best chance to learn?
Let me know that you think....
My first track days were on my street bike - a second gen zx10r. I became addicted immediately. I also felt the 10r was too much power for me. I went ahead and found a fully built retired racebike (600cc) for real cheap. Fully built track bikes are out there for pennies on the dollar, so I think option number (2) is out due to cost. Either sell the gsxr and buy a fully built racebike or ride the 10r. Personally, I would lean toward riding the 10r since you've already put some money into it and it's perfectly capable :eek:ccasion14:
 

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Ill throw in my $.02. Im no expert by any means but Ive watched guys on 600 whip the tar out of guys on liter bikes track day after track day. Theres a trend here towards 250's and I think thats a good thing. You can learn TONS on one and they are so forgiving. Not to mention the corner speed is rediculous. Now most guys arent gonna ride a 250 because their desire to learn isnt as big as their ego. Shamefully that includes me. I may get flamed but in your case I would sell the 10 and keep your eye on the WERA classifieds for another GSXR 600 or 750. They are cheap to buy and cheap to fix. The parts for years are inter-changable and you already have one. That not only means your used to it but you can share parts if needed between the two. BTW as Brad said "Welcome to the addiction."
 

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I agree. But I heard an instructor once say "you don't know what you don't know" and I've never ridden anything less than a 1000 on the track and I'm having fun with the big bike. I won't know what I'm missing out on until I try it, but for now, as long as I'm having fun I'll continue with this bike.

However, I am looking for a 250 so I can get into lightweight endurance racing. It's cheaper to race endurance than the big bikes and from what I've heard, just as fun. Plus "tons of corner speed" that I hope will transfer over to the big bike.


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I agree, but have some things to add...

What do you want from a track day? Personally my thing is going, having fun, learning and trying to come back home in one piece. The bike role in this is minor. You can go faster or slower and have a hell of a time anyway!

I've done 2 laps on a 250 2 stroke aprilia once and that thing is a blast! Probably the most fun bike I've ever ridden. Everybody says it's fun racing a small cc bike, but the truth is that small cc bikes usually have crappy components and you end up spending a fortune to make it actually good. The little aprilia is fun out of the box (but it's an expensive box anyway).

As o10r and I said, it is really hard to find a track that was designed for a liter bike. But I disagree that smaller bikes are faster. They are as much or more fun to ride, but a liter bike will always be faster if well ridden. The ride will of course be potentially more dangerous and tiring, therefore not as fun. Smaller bikes were fast years ago when a liter bike was approximately the size of a school bus and weighed 3/4ton dry.

Well, that's my experience. I've never ridden in a small track and have no idea how are the tracks you have access to. But from what I'm used to, larger cc > better lap times on the same track. But. For me it doesn't matter. I'm no pro. I'm just there to have fun, not to break records.
 

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When I started doing track days I bought a bone stock clapped out 600 with nothing but fiberglass bodywork and a slipon for $3500. Before that bike I had never ridden a 600 for more than a quick demo ride. It felt slow and boring down the straights but I had no problem going faster and faster into corners because A) I didn't care if it got crashed and B) it wasn't fast enough down the straights to get my entry speed so high that I had to park it into corners. One year later I upgraded to a full 180whp 1000 sbk, lost $250 on the 600 and started racing (podiumed my first 2 races before blowing up the 1000). Last year my bike was having the motor rebuilt and I was given the opportunity to ride a 600 again. When my 1000 was fixed I raced both in one weekend, it took me 1/2 a day on the 600 before I could ride the 1000 because my brain couldn't keep up with what was going on.

There's no way I would have progressed as fast as I did on a 1000. If you can afford it, buy a basic 600 track bike for around $3500, ride it for a season and sell it for $3250 then jump back on your 1000. You'll learn more and have an easier time riding a bike that doesn't want to high side you when you get on the gas at the apex of a corner dragging your knee at 100mph....oh man I want to ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I am really out there to have fun, wherever I go fast or go slow. I really don't care if I get passed by 10 people (which I was a lot this past weekend). My main goal is to get better at riding at the track, learn correct lines and speeds to take into corners.

I really don't want to sell my 10r, as I have put a lot work into it (more than into my GSX-R), and I know eventually (when I get better at it), I will want to be on the bigger bike.
 

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You really already have the perfect track bike the GSXR 750 is the perfect balance of handling and power. No so much power like a liter bike but enough to keep you interested. I know its your street ride but you should just take it to the track as is ride within your comfort zone and see how it feels to you then you can make a better decision about whats best for you. I am a big person and for me a six hundred was just to small. I started on literbikes and found that if you stay in your comfort zone and do track days consistantly you will get more confident and faster. Just my 02
 

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I agree. But I heard an instructor once say "you don't know what you don't know" and I've never ridden anything less than a 1000 on the track and I'm having fun with the big bike. I won't know what I'm missing out on until I try it, but for now, as long as I'm having fun I'll continue with this bike.

However, I am looking for a 250 so I can get into lightweight endurance racing. It's cheaper to race endurance than the big bikes and from what I've heard, just as fun. Plus "tons of corner speed" that I hope will transfer over to the big bike.


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That looks like a TON of fun!
 

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You can learn on a liter bike, but a smaller bike would probably be easier since tthey so easy to flick around.

Turn that 750 into track only and your gen2 to street only! 750 is a great track bike. Very nimble with good power delivery.
So what if I take my 437 Lbs Gen 4 and remove the cats bringing it down to 435 (which is lighter than a stock ZX-6R). Is that considered a smaller bike at that point?
 

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So what if I take my 437 Lbs Gen 4 and remove the cats bringing it down to 435 (which is lighter than a stock ZX-6R). Is that considered a smaller bike at that point?
My mostly stock 06 ZX10 weighs 413 lbs. My Gf's 06 ZX6R weighs 372 lbs. they added a lot of crap the newer bikes.
 

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So what if I take my 437 Lbs Gen 4 and remove the cats bringing it down to 435 (which is lighter than a stock ZX-6R). Is that considered a smaller bike at that point?
HUGE difference in rotational mass between a 600 and a 1000. And yes, it is very noticeable on track even if the bikes weigh the same. Not to mention hustling a 1000 around a quickly is simply a ton more work. You really have to throw your weight around as compared to a 600. I've had a 600, 750 and a built 1000 (ex ama superbike) and have gone faster as I went smaller in capacity.

At a slower pace, it's not so much of a difference, but at race pace all those small things add up really fast.
 

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The difference between the 600 and 750 is negligible. The ride the 10R fast is a different riding style. I race LWE, 600's and an RSVR in endurance, and each of them have their own style to ride them fast.

As far as learning, the learning curve on a 10r is much steeper. Can it be done? Well sure, but it's not as easy.
 
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