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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have a ‘17 track bike. ABS lines removed and pump in place. I’m looking to remove the ABS pump as well.
I have a non-ABS wire harness I’ll be trimming down for race use.
Do I also need a non-ABS ECU? Or will the wiring take care of it?

thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I’ve compared the part numbers, and don’t see an inherent difference between ABS/non-ABS ecu’s.
My concern is a software issue, I would think Woolich or FTecu would have cracked into it if that’s the case but can’t be sure.
Im hoping swapping the harness will yield the appropriate results, but don’t want to waste a track day having to swap the harness back if I find out a mile down track that’s not it.
 

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I can't say for sure, as I'm on a dinosaur G3. Hope it helps.

In your case, the meter is also different between 2017 ABS and non-ABS models.

I referenced a thread on G4, and seems there's no reason it wouldn't work, except with the ABS meter, you'll get the warning lights. Gen 4: 2011-15 - abs removal
A non-ABS harness should direct the wheel speed sensor back to ECU for the TC (S-KTRC) to work, which otherwise wouldn't with the ABS harness and ABS pump unplugged/removed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I can't say for sure, as I'm on a dinosaur G3. Hope it helps.

In your case, the meter is also different between 2017 ABS and non-ABS models.

I referenced a thread on G4, and seems there's no reason it wouldn't work, except with the ABS meter, you'll get the warning lights. Gen 4: 2011-15 - abs removal
A non-ABS harness should direct the wheel speed sensor back to ECU for the TC (S-KTRC) to work, which otherwise wouldn't with the ABS harness and ABS pump unplugged/removed.
Now we’re talking, I’m cool with an ABS light, just don’t want to end up with no traction/launch/quick shift/blip etc as when the pumps unplugged.

Thanks for that, gives me enough confidence to swap out the harness and run it at least.
 

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I've had similar problems with gen4 abs harness to non abs harness, there isnt any difference at the ecu level, its the resistance from the abs unit which on the non abs harness is covered by 2x 220 ohm resistors to delete the abs. The difference I believe is in the dash unit the abs has a circuit to identify the abs signal and display the info of course. Im not sure what part it plays and impact on any functionality of the bike though. As i cant comment until i have fixed other issues with my bike. You can get an abs delete module for the 16+ model which basically just plugs into that port and makes it the same as the non abs harness wtih 2x 220ohm resistors, but they are expensive. I'm going to try and find out what specific resistors are used so a cheaper version can be made.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've had similar problems with gen4 abs harness to non abs harness, there isnt any difference at the ecu level, its the resistance from the abs unit which on the non abs harness is covered by 2x 220 ohm resistors to delete the abs. The difference I believe is in the dash unit the abs has a circuit to identify the abs signal and display the info of course. Im not sure what part it plays and impact on any functionality of the bike though. As i cant comment until i have fixed other issues with my bike. You can get an abs delete module for the 16+ model which basically just plugs into that port and makes it the same as the non abs harness wtih 2x 220ohm resistors, but they are expensive. I'm going to try and find out what specific resistors are used so a cheaper version can be made.
I can’t imagine there would a difference in the cluster, if you look at aftermarket dashes they don’t offer an ABS/non-ABS unit. With that, and the fact the ecu is different from ABS to non, I’m thinking it’s all down to the harness…
I still haven’t gone thoroughly over the schematic but I imagine that will answer the final question… for the most part.
 

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I think on the Gen4 the wheel speed sensors route to the ABS pump which then codes that data on CAN bus to the ECU. On non ABS the wheel speed sensors go straight to the ECU….

I’m not entirely sure what gives me this idea, or how I came to this understanding, so I could be wrong.

you will need to study the wiring diagrams. Basically unless you got kit ecu and wiring harness, I don’t think it’s trivial.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think on the Gen4 the wheel speed sensors route to the ABS pump which then codes that data on CAN bus to the ECU. On non ABS the wheel speed sensors go straight to the ECU….

I’m not entirely sure what gives me this idea, or how I came to this understanding, so I could be wrong.

you will need to study the wiring diagrams. Basically unless you got kit ecu and wiring harness, I don’t think it’s trivial.

Good luck.
Thank you.

I was under the same impression after reading up on this months ago, that the pump was basically wired inline and if you remove and essentially wired “past” the pump you were good.

Good/bad is, we’ve still got months before it’s riding season.

Appreciate the insight, I’ll post back when I figure it out.
 

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I think on the Gen4 the wheel speed sensors route to the ABS pump which then codes that data on CAN bus to the ECU. On non ABS the wheel speed sensors go straight to the ECU….

I’m not entirely sure what gives me this idea, or how I came to this understanding, so I could be wrong.

you will need to study the wiring diagrams. Basically unless you got kit ecu and wiring harness, I don’t think it’s trivial.

Good luck.
You got it right, for all gens 4 and above the wheel speed sensors send signal through a line that either goes to the abs unit which provides a range of different resistances or the non abs harness has resistors which the signals go through to the ecu.
 

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Thank you.

I was under the same impression after reading up on this months ago, that the pump was basically wired inline and if you remove and essentially wired “past” the pump you were good.

Good/bad is, we’ve still got months before it’s riding season.

Appreciate the insight, I’ll post back when I figure it out.
Abs harness need the resistors to remove the abs, non abs they are already on the harness "inline" as you call it, you'll see 2 white things taped into the harness.
 

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I can’t imagine there would a difference in the cluster, if you look at aftermarket dashes they don’t offer an ABS/non-ABS unit. With that, and the fact the ecu is different from ABS to non, I’m thinking it’s all down to the harness…
I still haven’t gone thoroughly over the schematic but I imagine that will answer the final question… for the most part.
So I only had a few mins to play with my Davinic dash but there isnt an indicator for abs as far as I can see.

Re the stock meter unit it does have a circuit as per the service manual and it is the same for all Gens 4 and above its a simple circuit. From what I can see it is a diode looking at the diagram. So im guessing on the abs cluster when there isnt any voltage on it this triggers the 1b code.
Font Parallel Rectangle Pattern Slope


Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Pattern


As you can see the meter unit detects the abs fault (first image) and second image looks like a diode in the meter.


Schematic Font Rectangle Parallel Slope


Schematic Font Parallel Engineering Rectangle


For reference the harnesses are very similar bar the resister R 220 for rear and resister F 220 for front
 

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so to summarise you will always get a 1b light on an abs dash as the circuit is in the dash, im not a kawasaki engineer so i dont know if it giving the 1b in anyway tells the ecu to do anything different, but the circuit is there.

Now that I think of it, that circuit probably works by getting a signal above a certain voltage when the bike starts moving. As from memory the abs light goes off after a certain speed. The same thing prob applies to the non abs but because the dash doesnt have that diode circuit it doesnt worry about it.
 

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So I only had a few mins to play with my Davinic dash but there isnt an indicator for abs as far as I can see.

Re the stock meter unit it does have a circuit as per the service manual and it is the same for all Gens 4 and above its a simple circuit. From what I can see it is a diode looking at the diagram. So im guessing on the abs cluster when there isnt any voltage on it this triggers the 1b code.
View attachment 449695

View attachment 449696

As you can see the meter unit detects the abs fault (first image) and second image looks like a diode in the meter.


View attachment 449697

View attachment 449698

For reference the harnesses are very similar bar the resister R 220 for rear and resister F 220 for front
I'd be interested to know how you like that dash and the brackets/ setup. Please let us know if you get a chance.
 

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How hard is it to remove and replace the ABS pump on a 4th or 5th gen? I assume they have the same placement right by the left side frame spar. I think my ABS pump could be going bad so I'm trying to figure out how big of a job it will be to replace it. I remember it being a pain in the proverbial ass to replaced the hard lines with my Speigler ABS braided versions but I didn't need to remove the pump to do that.
 

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It will be as hard as replacing the lines really as that's the painful bit, once lines unscrewed then just disconnect electrical connector and undo mounts, but the ball ache is the hardlines and not threading the nuts.
 
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