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How to become a better rider

4K views 36 replies 8 participants last post by  scout 
#1 ·
I know there are some different opinions on the subject, so I figured it's time for a thread about it.

My opinion, pulled from Ken Hill, but I can relate some of Code's concepts back to the same theories . I want to do what the best in the world are doing. If there was a safer way to go faster they would be doing it. Now take that with a grain of salt. The best in the world practice the fundamentals a lot. The fundamentals are eyes and focus, brake control, bike position, body position, turn in rate, throttle control.

The basic fundamentals are the same, but how fine you apply them allows you to be a better rider.

A better rider is one who can apply the fundamentals when the pace goes up and the risk increases.
 
#2 ·
This should be an interesting discussion.

It would help to clarify if we're talking about track or street riding or both.

I find that it's easy to talk about the "skills" required to operate the bike controls, but the one thing that most riders really fail on doing is maintaining situational awareness. I think this trait is essential when riding, especially on the street. Good situational awareness can help overcome a small deficit in skill by giving a rider options and time to make corrections and goes to your point about eyes and focus. Unfortunately, good situational awareness can't really be taught as easily as how to let the clutch out smoothly.

Outside of that, the things you've got pointed out already are key elements that every rider should be working on - on every ride. Being comfortable applying those elements under a multitude of different situations is essential.
 
#4 ·
I primarily think about track, but the same concepts and application of fundamentals apply to the street.

Situational awareness to me is the first step. Ken calls it eyes and focus. You make better decisions with more information. Your eyes take in information. Therefore you need to keep moving your eyes to gather as much information as possible. Focus is the other half of it. Every time I go out riding, whether its a commute to work, canyon riding, or a track session, I make sure I have a plan. If I find myself drifting off into thoughts of something other than the task at hand I re-focus. So, situational awareness is the outcome of gathering information with your eyes and being focused on the task at hand. There are some ways to teach those techniques.

Fang: you state that the risk doesn't increase with the pace. i'm don't understand how that can be. When you increase the pace you have less time to complete your actions. Laws of physics dictate that the energy to dissipate is greater with the square of speed.
 
#3 ·
A better rider is one who can apply the fundamentals when the pace goes up and the risk increases.
That's an interesting statement but there is another way to look at it. I think this calls SkyDork's statements into play with respect to situational awareness (we can see the pilot coming out in him there, a good thing).

I disagree with the idea that the risk increases with pace. The speed one is riding does not increase the risk; it is the lack of good judgment. When riding on the street, there is some speed (which can be calculated) which will be too fast for conditions, where no possible corrective action will work. But that has nothing to do with riding skills, it has to do with situational awareness. For example, knowing how to account for the blind turns, unknown pavement surfaces and road hazards, and knowing the speeds at which one can handle those eventualities.

Many street riders just want to go faster than their buddies and they will enter every single turn on a road as fast as they can. Hopefully there won't be any surprises but occasionally there are, and they can be painful.

Having the judgment and restraint NOT to chase down the so-called fast guy is a better street riding skill than all the schools, track days, and racing experience imaginable.

Knowing one's own limits is also good judgment. The speeds a skilled rider can enter turns or encounter the unknown are usually higher than those of a lesser-skilled rider. The kinds of situations that will result in a close call for a good rider often result in an accident for someone with less skill and judgment.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I have peaked in my riding and dropped back to a lower plateau and I have zero aspirations at this point to be better than I am. I do not mean to say that I am apathetic towards riding as nothing could be further from the truth, I just know that I am NEVER going to be top club level racer fast let alone pro racer fast. Even as I am finally getting back into shape and losing a bunch of weight I packed on after an injury several years ago I'm just not that quick overall. In my prime I was about 7-10 seconds off any given AMA lap record and that is all I am ever going to accomplish. I know that, I have accepted that and I am totally ok with that. I just like riding on a track and helping others do the same. Doesn't matter if I am towing Novice riders around, setting up the suspension on a bone stock SV650 or helping a Pro Racer get his suspension dialed in for HIS unique needs at one particular circuit. I just like the atmosphere of being both at and on the track with fellow enthusiasts. I ride the track because it is fun and relatively safe compared to street riding and I don't really want to push it any further to the point where it is not safe. I'm too old to be wadding my shit up and it takes too long for me to heal nowadays.

Back in May I had an awesome weekend at Buttonwillow with Let's Ride Trackdays. I got to tune suspension all day on on Sunday then ride all day on Memorial Day and it was just an awesome event all the way around. I was working with my wife and had slowed down to wait for her to catch up when she got tangled up with a bunch of friends and they all went blasting by so I gave chase and it was one of my favorite sessions ever. I never got above about 75% of my ability and just kept everything mild and in check. That to me is what a trackday should be. Easy going, not putting myself or others in harms way and always in control. I'm not beating the motorcycle to death with constant thrashing and I'm not doing anything that could put me into an expected panic situation. I'm running a pace that leaves me a lot of track still available and always have my eye on an out just in case. Racing would be a different story, but this is what I wish every single trackday was like for me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkT_mYle1og


The bottomline though is I do not feel like I am ever going to become a better rider regardless of what I am being taught as it is comes down to managing slides and drifts to cut time further when I ramp it up to 100% and that is not where I want to be riding at... I bet I am not alone in that regard. I just want to ride quickly and comfortably not be the fastest man on the track that is where I am mitigating the risk.
 
#9 ·
Some seriously good points and really great discussion. Although I'm very sure I'm no where near as fast as LDH is or nearly as knowledgeable about the track or suspension I feel much the same way about my own riding skills. I'm only going to have "X" amount of track days left to learn how to be faster. I'm already what many would consider an over the hill age although that really means nothing to me personally but I'm very aware I'm not going to get much faster than I am at this point. I can say that for me slowly working on one area until I am comfortable there and then going a tad further has helped. A real willingness to take an accurate assessment in your own skills and an active role in improving them. Being willing to spend a few track days working on certain areas and not set your best lap time or beat your buddies so that down the road when you put things together you will be better. Seat time is also key to me. The more time I spend going fast the more things slow down and I can better process what I am or am not doing. So instead of everything being a blur, I can think about what I did and how it worked. Some lead follow with video can be a great learning tool. You can literally see what your doing and make corrections and there are some great control riders out there willing to work you if you just ask. Certainly learning is an individual process and we all learn in different ways and at different rates so leaving the ego at home and keeping the focus on where you are and not someone else can keep you on track. Lastly follow someone just a tad faster than you. Maybe a one to three second a lap faster rider and try and keep up. I have found I can go a tad faster than I thought I could when I try and keep up.
 
#10 ·
Lastly follow someone just a tad faster than you. Maybe a one to three second a lap faster rider and try and keep up. I have found I can go a tad faster than I thought I could when I try and keep up.
Yes, trying to chase down someone 10 seconds a lap faster who's streaking off into the distance is not going to be helpful. I often find that my cornering speeds are as high or higher than the faster bikes and they need to get onto the straights to pull away. So all of the differential in lap times is what they've gained on the straights with more power. In that case I don't try to follow unless in a tight section.
 
#12 ·
Freddie Spencer was very big on visualization and having a clear plan. I went through his program a couple of times in Las Vegas. The fastest riders always get into the seriously esoteric aspects of thought and action.

Guys like Spencer, Roberts, Rossi, and so on simply have better brains with respect to processing and reacting to high-speed motion. We can train and train but we can't really improve the basic wiring we were born with. We can only work toward reaching its potential. For most riders who work at it, we can get pretty good. "Pretty good" usually means being able to ride safely and competently on the street without having a lot of close calls and near misses, and having confidence.

The number of riders who can actually get out onto a racetrack and ride at a respectable pace, ride smoothly, and improve over time is much smaller.

People think I am nuts because I like the faster racetracks, and I am expecting to turn 60 this year. But I like it. It does something for me. I am not the fastest guy in the fast group by any means, but I'm not the slowest. I CREEP up on my limitations, usually. And most of the guys going quicker are on slicks with full race setup, which gives a lot more grip and confidence under hard braking and cornering than my stock Gixxer 750 with Q3s.

Street riders who reject the track as being dangerous and just memorize a section of public road, and ride it as fast as they can, generally have their butts handed to them by a girl on a Ninja 300 the first time they try a track day. Their ego can't handle it. That is also another serious limitation. A proud rider is not going to improve. Hubris does not equal skill or speed.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I ride everyday so I don't forget how to ride, weather permitting. When Rossi said that I knew that he knew exactly what I was talking about. Next, must be in perfect health. Not slow thinking; not fat; not weak mentally; not weak physically; the ability to ride from the heart is paramount, simply can NOT ride from ego or from rational thinking once the throttle is learned as must ride within the collective sense of what is happening on the road targeting cagers and whatever; the ability to sort out Code's concepts in practice; the ability to find a street loop that is empty, so much going on in terms of riding techniques. Track equates to treadmills; ankles need real roads to gain strength. About as clear as I can make it.
 
#20 ·
Some good writing here on the subject.

For road riding, time to pull out The Pace and re read )))
The Pace | Nick Ienatsch | Motorcyclist magazine

Big differences from Street to Track. Environment is the key and track is a much better environment for pushing limits and the bike. Want to ride like that on the street, get your head read.

On the street, for rides, I like to travel solo. No other bikes to distract me and I focus on the rest of the world. Smooth, with lots of situational awareness. Ironically the most dangerous time riding the street is near home for most and usually at low speeds. Brain switching off issue.

Every ride, something new to learn. I like to ride in all conditions except when road ices over. Have ridden in sleet though but road surface was warm. Crap sticks to you visor though which is a bummer.

Never stop learning and it isn't all about speed but the joy of riding.
 
#21 ·
This is one that I admittedly do not do but I think it can be a great learning tool. Last 40 degree track day I did the traction was much different than the last 90 degree day. The rain is also different. Cant say I really love riding in the cold or the rain but they do provide opportunities to learn if you take advantage of them.
 
#22 ·
I know this makes me the Devils Advocate, but hear me out on some of these principals in "the pace" Bear in mind we have been discussing what it takes to get become a better rider not just what it takes to go riding on public roads without getting into trouble.

Setting corner speed early is definitely the safest bet, but you have to admit it kinda kills the buzz of sportriding. Not that I am condoning the idea that ripping into a corner on a public road is a good thing, but trailbraking into a turn is a mandatory skill that everyone eventually has to learn if they ever want to become proficient. You cannot ride a sportbike quickly without trailbraking as the braking force is required to alter the geometry of the bike to aid in proper turn in. As the front end compresses the geometry of the bike changes to assist the entry into the turn without the bike fighting the rider plus it loads up the front tire to increase the contact patch on the road giving additional traction. Equally as important is if you are always doing all your braking before you get into a turn and setting the entry speed at a sedate pace then you will NEVER get better at corner entry. Even on the race track if you always brake at the exact same point (brake marker etc) on the race track then you will never go through that turn quicker than you did before. More proficient riders learn that releasing the brakes is many times more critical than applying them. With "the pace" most of the braking maneuvers are initiated while the bike is still vertical and a full contact patch is available. When you trailbrake into the turn approaching the apex the braking force is increasing the contact patch of the front tire. If you do not release the brake in a very fluid controlled manner and just pop your fingers off the lever mid-apex then that extra contact patch you had been using in the middle of the turn is instantly reduced by half or more as soon as the front end pops back up from lack of braking pressure. This instant decrease in contact patch mid-turn can cause the front end to wash again another skillset that you need to master to become a better rider.

Don't hang off in the corners By doing this you are completely ignoring one of the most basic and essential elements of proper riding. Hanging off the bike allows us to move the Center of Gravity on the motorcycle and carry less lean angle through the corner. The more the rider leans off the bike the less the bike has to lean for you both. Additionally when you do blow a turn and we have all done it... If you are not accustomed to proper body positioning then you are not going to be in the proper position to reduce the lean angle of the bike to compensate for the increased speed and you are either going to stand the bike up and ride off the road or you are going to lowside when simply hanging off the bike could easily increase your odds of making the turn by a HUGE margin. Plus it is just fun to get off the bike...


Just a different perspective about "the pace" from someone that has dedicated most of the last decade to helping other riders get up to speed. Again I'm not saying there is anything wrong with "the pace" I am just saying it is oriented more towards keeping street riders safe and sane than it is towards increasing a skillset for riding.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Just a different perspective about "the pace" from someone that has dedicated most of the last decade to helping other riders get up to speed. Again I'm not saying there is anything wrong with "the pace" I am just saying it is oriented more towards keeping street riders safe and sane than it is towards increasing a skillset for riding.
Indeed! I struggled with this when I started club racing. The sort of skills you learn to stay upright while riding briskly on the street do not do you any favors on the race track. If you charge into corners everywhere on the street you are going to have -a lot- of low side repairs. Conversely, if you set your speed early/don't trail brake in corners people will just use you as a braking marker at anything higher than a trackday pace. Been there, done that.

At the end of all that I saw why most top tier racers say they stop riding on the street... The basic skills are obviously interchangeable, but the 'better' points of each conflict with each other. Racing is about winning in a controlled environment, street riding is about having fun/getting where you're going while surviving the trip; they are not the same skill set at all once you get past basic technique. The risk avenues are so different, and where you have to focus are so different, it's just lunacy to apply one set of skills to both and expect the best results from both. When you train one set to muscle memory you pretty much have to unlearn it to succeed in the other. I've never met anyone who has lived long that has not. :(

I'd say before you try to become a 'Better Rider" that you decide WHAT kind of rider you want to be in the first place... and then work on those specific skills.... you'll have a lot less frustration along the way. :)
 
#28 · (Edited)
Yes and no. The throttle is the key. But the secret is using the throttle at the exact level the bike demands: meaning sometimes it wants just a crack and sometimes it wants a tad...all the way up but rarely does the bike want wot. Front braking, trail braking, is needed often on my tight loop on steep downhills but even there I want to crack the throttle but often can't do it. I'm talking the tight 180's on Quimby or Ham. The throttle even cracked is where the bike wants to be in the turns as everything works from suspension to comfort. The Asian guy in the slow but tight video guy is the proof of concept.

Each turn has it's own physics. The turn sets the rules; the pilot and the bike play its music. When the fat lady sings, you'll know right away.
 
#34 ·
Good discussion and many things that can be taken from the track to the street. Just not at the same extremes. Spirited corner riding - Brakes, Body Position, Throttle.

Things to be taken from the pace - Lane Discipline, Corner Entry Speeds that allow for safe handling of unexpected surprises and how not to be a dick on a group ride.

Be surprised at the amount of times I have come across road debris mid corner, or a slow moving vehicle like cyclist or tractor and then even cars coming towards me over on my side of the road. These variables have to be accounted for as are the unlikely event you will encounter a mobile tax collector on the same road as you and give you a bill for having fun.

One mystery ride had me doing a tight downhill right hander corkscrew only to find holes in the road were filled with sand. Such a pity as it was a nice corner otherwise but I wasn't to keen on the front end walk I had as I rode it but it was managed and aside from a slight increase in heart beat, all was good. ))
 
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