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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, my 09 ZX-10R has a K&N Race Filter, Slip On Exhaust and it was running fine. Recently we de-catted the header and the bike has been running rough. I expected it have to get a tune after we de-catted it, but I wasn't expecting it to feel so different. It feels like it's lost maybe 20-30% power, the exhaust sounds flat and I know it's because the air/fuel is off.

So my options are a mail-in ECU Flash to SchnitzRacing (or comparable shop) with a specific list of mods done to bike and they can flash the ECU. I'd prefer the dyno tune, but both of the local shops have quoted $800-$900, and one of the shops wants to install a PCV and tune it with that on there. The ECU Flash is around $300-$350

First off, does that price seem high for dyno tune? I'm in the NW Tennessee area (Ft Campbell).

The one shop quoted $900 without even installing a PCV, so it's just not worth it to me.

My main question is, will I be just fine going with a mail-in ECU Flash? I'm not trying to squeeze out every last HP, but I do want to get the bike running strong again and benefit from a tune/flash

Thank you,


 

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For me, losing 20-30 % by stripping the cat? NO something is wrong you have displaced something somewhere while removing the exhaust. Yes it will run rougher especially if you have a higher flow filter and lower back pressure slip on but no way do you loss any noticeable power the bike will just miss and hesitate slightly and surge tiny bits,you will get little pops and things but if its coming over as violent and a loss of power you have disturbed something. I cant comment on flash-tune prices in the US but they do seem top price. Obviously a flash and dyno is better than a mail in. And if your only doing these mods maybe a mail in will do it but can be a little hit and miss. If you want the best then a flash and tune direct to ECU is better than flash and tune with a PCV, but is the more costly.
 

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OK, let's get the info right on this. The catalytic converter on the model is welded into the header. You hook the header off, punched and scraped out the platinum core, and opened up the header in the 2-into-1 section? That's what B.H was getting to.

Michael is also right in that a slip-on shouldn't change much in terms of performance unless it's tuned for that. It's a noise and weight mod primarily. Something else happened when you put those things on and removed the stock parts. Do you have an exhaust leak? Especially if you took the header off to decat it. The copper header gaskets aren't reusable as they crush down during install. If you reused those, then you likely are leaking the exhaust which will contribute to the loss of power. I hope you didn't try to do all that with it on the bike.

Punching out the cat is a cheap alternative to a full system, but is not the same as getting free power from it. Like any head pipe change, the fueling will be affected and needs to be retuned to account for that. Don't be fooled by the mail-in reflash services. They are good, but there is nothing "specific" about them. No one can tune your bike over the interweb like that. They ask you what "mods" you have, they make educated guesses and pull from a database of similar mods. They will get you closer, but unless a competent tuner can see how your bike reacts to your mods in real time, it's just a guess. Whether or not you can live with that and be happy with it for the price you pay is up to you. Usually a half of a day on the dyno is what a tuner will bill you for. And it's easier to tune with a Power Commander than it is with reflash software.

You could install an autotune kit yourself and tune it while you ride. Otherwise, the reflash will probably be your best bet, but no one will be able to tune it over the phone for a "K&N filter and decatted stock header with a slip-on" with any sort of accuracy.
 

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Left the headers on the bike and drilled out the cats
Ha! You posted that right before I did and I didn't see that. Ugh.

So all you did was use a drill bit? How big? How long was it? How the hell did you get all the bits out of the header to not block up the parts of the core? The cat is set back in about 5 inches from the opening is roughly 6 inches deep. So you would need to use at least a 12" drill bit to get through it all. At a shitty angle from the single opening. And would chew up several drillbits on that platinum matrix. That's a shitty job for sure!
 

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Left the headers on the bike and drilled out the cats
:oops: Well in a way i think well done for that but in another way i think holy fuck it would have been a lot quicker to take emm off, how the fuck did you manage that? But going back to the issue well i have no other ideas apart from something has been dislodged somewhere to be losing power like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
447898



:oops: Well in a way i think well done for that but in another way i think holy fuck it would have been a lot quicker to take emm off, how the fuck did you manage that? But going back to the issue well i have no other ideas apart from something has been dislodged somewhere to be losing power like that.
Notice the long drill bits used, which did most of the work. Also used the longer flatheads a little bit to chisel out the sides. As far as the power, maybe 20-30% power loss might be a stretch, but it definitely feels a bit slower than before, I'm assuming because it's running lean. Like mentioned it sounds flat as well. Still a quick bike though. What I can do is post a quick pull video later today and you can watch the speedo and when you can judge how far off the acceleration is because I haven't been on the bike in a week or so so some of it might be all in my head, but it definitely sounds 'off'. I had also been waiting on a new rear tire so the bike wasn't being ridden for a week, that is when I drilled out the cats. I really would like to get it dyno tuned but damn these $800 quotes are ridiculous, and after reading your guys responses it sounds like the ECU flash would be OK to get the bike right
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Also if there is an exhaust leak at the header, at the least I certainly cannot hear any type of leak up there. And the cats came out so easily I didn't see the need to pull the header off
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Shitty pic, but this what it looked like when we were about half way done with it. I did not take any pictures of the completed job, but it looks pretty clean in there now. And mostly looks like there was never any cats in there at all


447899
 

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Round of applause needed 👏Sadly not much can be judged from posting a clip of it pulling, there are to many variables
for a spectator to say if its pulling as it should, an example is the worn tyre excluding any slip it would accelerate faster as the diameter is smaller and then there's final drive variables etc But post it up nobody gets sick watching those 😍 We would guess better listening to it on tickover cold tickover hot and blipping iup toto around 3500.
 

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Round of applause needed 👏Sadly not much can be judged from posting a clip of it pulling, there are to many variables
for a spectator to say if its pulling as it should, an example is the worn tyre excluding any slip it would accelerate faster as the diameter is smaller and then there's final drive variables etc But post it up nobody gets sick watching those 😍 We would guess better listening to it on tickover cold tickover hot and blipping iup toto around 3500.
Hello, my 09 ZX-10R has a K&N Race Filter, Slip On Exhaust and it was running fine. Recently we de-catted the header and the bike has been running rough. I expected it have to get a tune after we de-catted it, but I wasn't expecting it to feel so different. It feels like it's lost maybe 20-30% power, the exhaust sounds flat and I know it's because the air/fuel is off.

So my options are a mail-in ECU Flash to SchnitzRacing (or comparable shop) with a specific list of mods done to bike and they can flash the ECU. I'd prefer the dyno tune, but both of the local shops have quoted $800-$900, and one of the shops wants to install a PCV and tune it with that on there. The ECU Flash is around $300-$350

First off, does that price seem high for dyno tune? I'm in the NW Tennessee area (Ft Campbell).

The one shop quoted $900 without even installing a PCV, so it's just not worth it to me.

My main question is, will I be just fine going with a mail-in ECU Flash? I'm not trying to squeeze out every last HP, but I do want to get the bike running strong again and benefit from a tune/flash

Thank you,


Bro call funforall Motorsports in Elizabethtown ky ask for kory he is the tuner he will answer all you questions and recommend the best solution
 

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You can lose exhaust velocity by opening up that large cavity in the factory header like that, often times the bikes will run better especially in the low end with the cat still there, the m4 header works well on that model
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Here are a few quick pulls. The more I ride it, the more I think I've just lost some power down low because I don't have cats anymore.

Also to add to this mix, I recently had a 190/50ZR17 on the bike which was almost bald. Last week I installed a 200/55 ZR17, so the extra height of the rear tire could be playing into the seat of the pants feel.

Also, for what's worth when I started the bike this morning to make these videos, it seems to be running a little better and sounds a little better too. Maybe the stock ECU has some type of small auto tune in it to calibrate for different air/fuel mixtures.

Still missing noticeable power down low though. And first gear, for example, I have to give a full twist and for a couple seconds it doesn't even feel like it's moving very fast. I'll post the idle and rev video as well as soon as It's done uploading as well.
 

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Here are a few quick pulls. The more I ride it, the more I think I've just lost some power down low because I don't have cats anymore.

Also to add to this mix, I recently had a 190/50ZR17 on the bike which was almost bald. Last week I installed a 200/55 ZR17, so the extra height of the rear tire could be playing into the seat of the pants feel.

Also, for what's worth when I started the bike this morning to make these videos, it seems to be running a little better and sounds a little better too. Maybe the stock ECU has some type of small auto tune in it to calibrate for different air/fuel mixtures.

Still missing noticeable power down low though. And first gear, for example, I have to give a full twist and for a couple seconds it doesn't even feel like it's moving very fast. I'll post the idle and rev video as well as soon as It's done uploading as well.
You will have a hole in the lower power band by taking the cats off.i see it all the time, the pipe design is meant to have that space filled. Hollow space disturbs flow
 

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Here are a few quick pulls. The more I ride it, the more I think I've just lost some power down low because I don't have cats anymore.

Also to add to this mix, I recently had a 190/50ZR17 on the bike which was almost bald. Last week I installed a 200/55 ZR17, so the extra height of the rear tire could be playing into the seat of the pants feel.

Also, for what's worth when I started the bike this morning to make these videos, it seems to be running a little better and sounds a little better too. Maybe the stock ECU has some type of small auto tune in it to calibrate for different air/fuel mixtures.

Still missing noticeable power down low though. And first gear, for example, I have to give a full twist and for a couple seconds it doesn't even feel like it's moving very fast. I'll post the idle and rev video as well as soon as It's done uploading as well.
Not sure if you got my last message but kory at fun for all in Elizabeth town can help with any tuning questions you may have I have a full m4 on my 08 and a woollich tune but about to switch to ppower commander 5 and have him retune my bike as I just built a bigger motor
 

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Not to bad looking to me, for sure you will feel the bump up to a 200 from 190, yupp what 97 grnys is saying just that little lost down low also where your noticing the increased gearing (200/55) it would be happier with a tune, but also if you call up Gearing Commander - Motorcycle Speed and Drive Train Calculator v7 you will see what happens with your 200 going up 1 tooth on the rear just about corrects it but not knowing what gearing you currently have and if you plans for gearing already.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You will have a hole in the lower power band by taking the cats off.i see it all the time, the pipe design is meant to have that space filled. Hollow space disturbs flow
Yea, I agree with you. It still makes that peaky power up in the upper RPM's, I just lost it down low. How much can a ECU Flash offset this? I thinking going up +1 on the sprocket and getting the ECU flashed

Not sure if you got my last message but kory at fun for all in Elizabeth town can help with any tuning questions you may have I have a full m4 on my 08 and a woollich tune but about to switch to ppower commander 5 and have him retune my bike as I just built a bigger motor
I got it bud, thanks. Yea he is about 2.5 hours from me (Im in Clarksville) but I will give him a call tomorrow. If he can make the bike right for a decent price I have no problem making the ride up there

Not to bad looking to me, for sure you will feel the bump up to a 200 from 190, yupp what 97 grnys is saying just that little lost down low also where your noticing the increased gearing (200/55) it would be happier with a tune, but also if you call up Gearing Commander - Motorcycle Speed and Drive Train Calculator v7 you will see what happens with your 200 going up 1 tooth on the rear just about corrects it but not knowing what gearing you currently have and if you plans for gearing already.
Thanks. Interesting, it crossed my mind today while riding that maybe I need to go up a tooth to offset the bottom end power loss. I'm thinking now a Schnitz ECU Flash and a +1 sprocket, as I have just stock sprockets on the bike. Like mentioned I keep getting like $800+ quotes for a dyno tune so I'm hoping a $350 mail-in ECU tune to Schnitz Racing will make the bike right again
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Here is a cold start and quick rev video as well from this morning:

 

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Not to bad looking to me, for sure you will feel the bump up to a 200 from 190, yupp what 97 grnys is saying just that little lost down low also where your noticing the increased gearing (200/55) it would be happier with a tune, but also if you call up Gearing Commander - Motorcycle Speed and Drive Train Calculator v7 you will see what happens with your 200 going up 1 tooth on the rear just about corrects it but not knowing what gearing you currently have and if you plans for gearing already.
I'm also in clarksville you could look for a power commander with auto tune and if you are stock geared you can run 1 down 2 up and you will have all the low end you can Handel just took that off mine and reheated for more mid with the build I am doing also goodies in nashville should have there dyno up by end of the month and last thing did you buy a fairing kit or is that original
 
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