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Discussion Starter #1
Glenn Harbison is publisher of The News Observer. He can be reached at 706-632-2019 or by e-mail at [email protected]

http://www.thenewsobserver.com/articles/2012/05/22/opinions/opinion01.prt


This guy wrote an editorial that really has rubbed me the wrong way. He essentially is justifying hitting cyclists. I am an avid cyclist, both of the pedal and motor variety. I have been impacted from the death of friends on all types of two wheeled bikes, and this is not something that I take lightly.

This guy seems too important to take the time and pay attention to the weapon that he drives.

I was hoping that my zx-10r brothers (with time to kill) will unleash a fury of email, calls, craigslist ads, and what not to make his life a little more difficult. I know we have done this in the past, and now I need help. It would be nice if we could find his addy, and list some freebies that are first come, first serve.

Keep me updated on the shenanigans, so I can pass them onto to my other cycling buds.

I know I don't post much these days, but I am still lurking in the shadows.

Thanks for your help.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
BTW, the road is not a highway. It's a mountain road that is often used by m/c's and bikes.
 

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Newfie Bullet
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Personally..I think the guy is 100% correct....Highways have a min speed and to get to atleast 25 mph and hold it on a peddle bike you gotta have some legs on ya..So no way a peddle bike should be on the highway cause it becomes a hazzard for himself and the folks drivein 80,000 lb rigs to the 6500 full sized pick ups and down to the smart cars(which also scare the shit outta me)...
 

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Does not drive into smoke
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Highways have a min speed
As far as I know they don't, except for certain freeways.

Read what this guy writes:
It also reminded me that, time and again, what were once only big-city problems have filtered into our peaceful mountains.

I wondered, “Could this be one of the city folks who think they deserve part of the highway?”

or this:
I stopped riding a bicycle when I was a teenager and there are enough local challenges looming that big-city battles can be ignored.

No doubt, if I still rode a bicycle, I would want somewhere to ride. But, thanks to my upbringing, my first thought in finding that place would be for somewhere that I had a good chance of a safe ride.

He basically says: "fuck you city assholes" and "my values are superior to those of these self-absorbed cyclists".

He brings up some valid point (safety-wise), but he has crossed the line between objective reporting and own opinions. He's so deeply invested in his point of view that I doubt it's possible to have a meaningful discussion with him.
 

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Gen2 Ripper
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Bicyclist have to obey the same road rules as everyone else. On my local tight twisties they blow stop signs, ride two deep on roads with no shoulders and BLIND turns. They fail to obey traffic laws yet want to "share the road" with everybody else.
I am not saying to hit them with a vehicle but I will hit them with the noise from my pipe when they act like the road is theirs only. Can't tell you how many times I have almost been broadsided by a bicyclist while on my bike because they blew a stop sign or redlight
They should ONLY ride on roads that have shoulders or a cycle lane IMO.
 

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Does not drive into smoke
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I'm wondering what article he's referring to. It would be fair to see where he's coming from.

Frankly, I can see cyclists here in Austin just asking to be killed. Most streets are fairly safe for cycling, but a few are just death traps (360, Bee Caves Rd to name a couple).
 

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Does not drive into smoke
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They should ONLY ride on roads that have shoulders or a cycle lane IMO.
That approach won't solve anything. If that was to happen, the next thing to go may be motorcyclists: "blah, blah, stupid motorcyclists, blah, blah, they should only be allowed to ride on a parking lot, blah, blah".
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Let me just state for the record:

If we (cyclists of any kind) aren't abiding by the laws, then yes they deserve to be ticketed. I can't say that I don't break some laws here and there on all types of bikes, but that is the risk we take. Albeit, most of the time of the pedal powered version, the law breaking is to get my ass out of the way.

So this debate can evolve, I thought some basic info should be on here.

Straight ripped from wiki:

The right to the road
The New York State Legislature took the first step toward resolving the conflict, with the passage in 1887 of "An Act in Relation to the Use of Bicycles and Tricycles." This statute established for the first time that bicycles are "carriages," and that cyclists are "entitled to the same rights and subject to the same restrictions" as drivers of carriages.[5]
[edit]

The statutory right to the road
A basic statement of cyclists' rights and responsibilities has been adopted in the vehicle codes of most American states, as well as in the Uniform Vehicle Code. It says that bicyclists have the same rights and responsibilities as operators of automobiles, except where the law specifies otherwise or where it can naturally have no applicability.
[edit]

The constitutional right to the road
Some countries have noted the right as part of their constitutions.
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The right to the road by treaty
Cyclists' right to the road has also been enshrined in international law since 1968, with the accession of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. Under that treaty, bicycles have the legal status of vehicles, and cyclists enjoy the legal status of vehicle operators.[6] There are over 150 contracting parties to the treaty, including the United States, Canada, Mexico, the United Kingdom, Ireland, almost all of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and China. In countries that are contracting parties, the treaty has the force of law, and its provisions have been incorporated into national law.
 

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Gen2 Ripper
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How about they just ride on roads that have shoulders or designated lanes. Comapring a motorcycle to a bicycle isn't fair. One keeps up with flow of traffic and is FORCED to abide by same traffic laws as cars and is ticketed if it doesn't.
The other just takes up precious lane space on congested roadways and does not abide by traffic laws and rules. Yet DEMANDS that others go AROUND them, the slow moving ones, which forces the others to break laws/rules and cross center double yellows and sometimes causes head on collisions.
 

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Gen2 Ripper
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That approach won't solve anything. If that was to happen, the next thing to go may be motorcyclists: "blah, blah, stupid motorcyclists, blah, blah, they should only be allowed to ride on a parking lot, blah, blah".
No, we are powered vehicles that can maneuver the roadways perfectly fine without being a hazard to others on same roads(unless squids are riding Zuks in shorts doing 80mph wheelies in a 25mph zone of course).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yet DEMANDS that others go AROUND them, the slow moving ones, which forces the others to break laws/rules and cross center double yellows and sometimes causes head on collisions.
So, was the situation dangerous because of the cyclists?

Or was it because the other user couldn't wait for two minutes and reckless behavior put them at risk?

I don't disagree that some good judgement is require on which roads to ride on.
 

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Im gonna start this off by saying that I did not read the article, but felt the need to comment.

I am not saying that you should be trying to hit anybody on the road, ever. I will however say that bicyclists (Im a college student, keep in mind) have this tendancy to be some of the biggest jackasses on the road. Abusfullofnuns, I want to take what neverending said about forcing others to break laws. From the part you listed, I agree. Then there are 2 alternatives to look at. 1, some roads do have minimum speed limits for automobiles and bicyclists a lot of the time force the cars to have to break some law or another. This can be because they went 2 wide and are obstructing the lane or just because there is no room for both car and bicycle in the lane. 2, the instance where the bicyclist blows a stop sign or red light and forces a car to swerve to avoid hitting them. I have seen cyclists create hundreds of dangerous and easily preventable situations in my 4 years at university. No helmet. Blow lights. Blow stop signs. Almost run into cars, bikes, people bicyclists, signs, poles. Force people to have to avoid them. Everything you could do to get a ticket and I never see them get one. On the road or even on the major walkways on campus.

This is where I play devil's advocate though, Im not saying its always the bicyclist because I could easily write a book on stupid shit Ive watched cagers do in the 7 years Ive been on the road for. The problem isnt just cyclists, its everyone the road that thinks they are the center of everything and are entitled to everything and what they want goes and dont care about anyone else. Thats been the underlying problem I always see.

Summary of my thoughts: Noone is as important as they think they are in their own mind. Noone is entitled to a damn thing like they all think they are. People take zero responsibility for themselves on the road and everything that happens is someone else's fault or problem and that is flat out pathetic and the problem nowadays.
 

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Im gonna start this off by saying that I did not read the article, but felt the need to comment.

I am not saying that you should be trying to hit anybody on the road, ever. I will however say that bicyclists (Im a college student, keep in mind) have this tendancy to be some of the biggest jackasses on the road. Abusfullofnuns, I want to take what neverending said about forcing others to break laws. From the part you listed, I agree. Then there are 2 alternatives to look at. 1, some roads do have minimum speed limits for automobiles and bicyclists a lot of the time force the cars to have to break some law or another. This can be because they went 2 wide and are obstructing the lane or just because there is no room for both car and bicycle in the lane. 2, the instance where the bicyclist blows a stop sign or red light and forces a car to swerve to avoid hitting them. I have seen cyclists create hundreds of dangerous and easily preventable situations in my 4 years at university. No helmet. Blow lights. Blow stop signs. Almost run into cars, bikes, people bicyclists, signs, poles. Force people to have to avoid them. Everything you could do to get a ticket and I never see them get one. On the road or even on the major walkways on campus.

This is where I play devil's advocate though, Im not saying its always the bicyclist because I could easily write a book on stupid shit Ive watched cagers do in the 7 years Ive been on the road for. The problem isnt just cyclists, its everyone the road that thinks they are the center of everything and are entitled to everything and what they want goes and dont care about anyone else. Thats been the underlying problem I always see.

Summary of my thoughts: Noone is as important as they think they are in their own mind. Noone is entitled to a damn thing like they all think they are. People take zero responsibility for themselves on the road and everything that happens is someone else's fault or problem and that is flat out pathetic and the problem nowadays.
Except ZX10R riders more specificly 1st gen riders. We own the streets yo! :heyyou:
 

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Except ZX10R riders more specificly 1st gen riders. We own the streets yo! :heyyou:
fact! its cuz we da best sonnn!! Everyone should shake and move from the presence of the almighty Gen 1 or it will murder you!


(on the real though, I do include myself in all of the "people" and "everyone" because I know Ive caught myself doing the same shit I complain about people doing.)
 

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No, we are powered vehicles that can maneuver the roadways perfectly fine without being a hazard to others on same roads(unless squids are riding Zuks in shorts doing 80mph wheelies in a 25mph zone of course).
This is not about the motorcycles in particular. I just used it as an example. Even then, it's possible to make an argument that motorcycles are inherently less safe than cars: they can accelerate much faster, they are more manouverable, which makes it easier for them to make unexpected moves, it's easier for car drivers to miscalculate the speed of a motorcycle, and so on. Finally, in case of a collision with a car, the rider will most likely get hurt.

My point was that if we want freedom, we need to accept the consequences of it. Your freedom can mean that you can find yourself in somebody else's way, and conversely, someone else can do something inconvenient for you.

The pattern here is "there are some issues with ___, let's ban it from public highways", which can be applied to pretty much anything. The "issues" used to support such a proposition can be different, but the pattern remains the same.
 

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Gotta say, growin up in Malibu I never much cared for the cyclists that'd ride in the slow lane with no regard for their own safety or for the flow of traffic. I get it when there's no shoulder and they have to ride in the slow lane, but when there's an empty shoulder 5 feet wide and they're still in the slow lane I wonder why they can't comprehend how fucked up they'd be if they got hit by a car that's either not paying attention or just doesn't see them. HOWEVER, I can appreciate that cycling is a serious sport and the cyclists are entitled to a part of the road regardless of wether I think it's a good idea for them to exercise their right to a portion of the slow lane with cars flying by at 50-60 mph. What DOES piss me off however are these douchebags on single speed bikes that ride though the city like they own the fuckin streets. Especially when they ride in their gay little crews with their fluorescent colored bikes while wearing skinny jeans like they think it's cool. IMHO, those guys do deserve to get hit...


Sent from my iPad using MO Free
 

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Newfie Bullet
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What pisses me off all to hell is when you see some dude or group with his/their 10 speed $4000 peddle bike,fancy areo helmet,biker shorts suckin on his lil water bottle tryin to be MR TOUR DR FRANCE....They get on a two way fairly highly trafficked street and do their 10-15 mph and hold up traffic cause there is not enough room to get by with on comming traffic..Im driven a rig at say 40 mph(60 kph in canada) and i may not see the dude on his bike till im almost on top of him cause he is rideing along side a car..Now im 75 ft weighing 80000 + and now i gotta hit the binder quick or swerve so i dont pick him off with a fender or mirror....Imagine if i hit the bastard,yeap its gonna look sweet for me and my license..Even sweeter for him if he survives and the lawyer that will sue my ass....
My 2cts worth is GET THE F*%K OFF THE DAMN ROADS AND GO TO A PARK OR TRACK like us guys gotta do on our REAL bikes are always told..
If you cant do posted speed or implied local back road limit,you shouldnt be there..

Now...Thats my story and im stickin to it and im gonna have another beer and more fried peperoni with mustard sauce..:beer:
 

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Gen2 Ripper
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Gotta say, growin up in Malibu I never much cared for the cyclists that'd ride in the slow lane with no regard for their own safety or for the flow of traffic. I get it when there's no shoulder and they have to ride in the slow lane, but when there's an empty shoulder 5 feet wide and they're still in the slow lane I wonder why they can't comprehend how fucked up they'd be if they got hit by a car that's either not paying attention or just doesn't see them. HOWEVER, I can appreciate that cycling is a serious sport and the cyclists are entitled to a part of the road regardless of wether I think it's a good idea for them to exercise their right to a portion of the slow lane with cars flying by at 50-60 mph. What DOES piss me off however are these douchebags on single speed bikes that ride though the city like they own the fuckin streets. Especially when they ride in their gay little crews with their fluorescent colored bikes while wearing skinny jeans like they think it's cool. IMHO, those guys do deserve to get hit...


Sent from my iPad using MO Free

Malibu's Most Wanted Son!! Better check yo self !!

Haha, couldn't resist. I again am not saying that I think cyclists should not be allowed on the roads. But I am saying they should only be on roads with shoulders or designated bike lanes. They are popping up all over my way on the main roads. But the crazy windy, hilly, super tight blind turn roads that are off the mains are where the cyclists want to ride. I have been behind a few that have hit 50mph going down the hills and thought that was cool. But when they have to go up those hills which are curvy and cresty and you can't see what's coming more than 20 ft ahead, you just cant pass over the double yellow. It takes a LOT longer than 2 mins to finally pass. Sometimes near ten minutes and I am trying to get to work at 3pm weekdays and these cyclists are done work just sight seeing and making everyone agitated because they are on already dangerous roads that have hidden driveways, treacherous turns and crests etc that they put EVERYONE at risk.
Ride on roads with shoulders or bike lanes. Stay outta dangerous areas. And OBEY the traffic laws/rules of the road!!
 

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What pisses me off all to hell is when you see some dude or group with his/their 10 speed $4000 peddle bike,fancy areo helmet,biker shorts suckin on his lil water bottle tryin to be MR TOUR DR FRANCE....They get on a two way fairly highly trafficked street and do their 10-15 mph and hold up traffic cause there is not enough room to get by with on comming traffic..
lol...peddle bike posers. This is what i see all the time. Usually arrogant rich guys with the better than you attitude but on topic... I can't go 25mph over the limit because its hazardous to myself and fellow motorists so why should a bicyclist be allowed to ride 25mph below the posted speed limit. Impeding traffic in a car is an offense so bicycles should be held to the EXACT same standard.
 

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Boomer Sooner!
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lol...peddle bike posers. This is what i see all the time. Usually arrogant rich guys with the better than you attitude but on topic... I can't go 25mph over the limit because its hazardous to myself and fellow motorists so why should a bicyclist be allowed to ride 25mph below the posted speed limit. Impeding traffic in a car is an offense so bicycles should be held to the EXACT same standard.
Well said. Bicyclists should not be allowed on the 2 lane streets at all if ther is no shoulder. And NEVER on the highways. It is just stupid and doesnt make any sense why they would even want to be on the highway. I am not saying they deserve to be hit at all, but they should not be able to block traffic like that at all. I drive my car around the lake by my house a lot, and what really pisses me off is that bicyclists will ride on the road and go 15mph when they city just paid to put in a BRAND NEW bike trail 25 feet away that runs along the road. That is just not right at all.
 
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