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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, I posted this in another thread about someone's dyno results, and I figured it warranted starting a new thread to discuss. Anyway, I have some info that offers very good evidence for the "hard" break-in. Here's what I posted in the other thread:

I don't want to start a war here, but between Motoman's site and this quote of lycoming's site (they make aircraft engines for the those that don't know) I think that a hard break-in is not only beneficial, but a REQUIREMENT. Now, the quote:

" There are some aircraft owners and pilots who would prefer to use low power settings for cruise during the break-in period. This is not recommended. A good break-in requires that the piston rings expand sufficiently to seat with the cylinder walls during the engine break-in period. This seating of the ring with the cylinder wall will only occur when pressures inside the cylinder are great enough to cause expansion of the piston rings. Pressures in the cylinder only become great enough for a good break-in when power settings above 65% are used.

Full power for takeoff and climb during the break-in period is not harmful; it is beneficial, although engine temperatures should be monitored closely to insure that overheating does not occur. Cruise power settings above 65%, and preferably in the 70% to 75% of rated power range should be used to achieve a good engine break-in."


And here's the clincher from their site:

"For those who still think that running the engine hard during break-in falls into the category of cruel and unusual punishment, there is one more argument for high power settings during engine break-in. The use of low power settings does not expand the piston rings enough, and a film of oil is left on the cylinder walls. The high temperatures in the combustion chamber will oxidize this oil film so that it creates a condition commonly known as glazing of the cylinder walls. When this happens, the ring break-in process stops, and excessive oil consumption frequently occurs. The bad news is that extensive glazing can only be corrected by removing the cylinders and rehoning the walls. This is expensive, and it is an expense that can be avoided by proper break in procedures."

Now, if the people that make some of the most reliable piston engines in the world say to use full power during break-in or else LOSE performance, then, by God, i'm' going to do the same. I'm sure some of you on this forum are familiar with aircraft and the rediculous reliability expected of their engines. Here's the link to the original page for those interested:

http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/support/publications/keyReprints/operation/engineBreakIn.html

Consequently, the first thing I did on tuesday with my 0 miles ZX-10 after it warmed up was head out to the interstate and run it through the gears, and it just keeps getting stronger with 100 miles on the clock now, no oil burn or anything. I can't wait to get about 1000 or 2000 miles on it and dyno it and see the results! :)

Ok, someone argue with me :lol:
 

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To each his own - all I'll say is that Lycoming didn't make the 10 so I think that followin the recommendations from the manufacturer is a good idea.
 

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I have always been too impatient to break bikes in properly. I have never had a problem with any of my bikes. I try to stay somewhat close to what the manufacturers say about break ins, but occasionally I veer from the program... I have never had an oil comsumption problems or anything. You can do what you want to do with break in, just don't expect the dealership to give you a new motor if you beat the hell out of it....
 

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I still trust the lil guys that made my machine.



I work on aircraft and we don't have a break in period. Although it could be the fact that you could fly a Cessna into the intake of one my engines. LOL

Not sure if it has to power to weight ratio of my 10R either.

769,000lbs dry (add another 352,000lbs for a full tank of fuel and maybe 10,000 for oil and Hydraulics) 50,000lbs of thrust X 4 engines. Its a little tall fer my taste though. 65' at the tail.





 

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Discussion Starter #5
Obviously if those engines had pistons rings to break in, you'd have bigger problems! :shock: That's a C-5, correct.....GE turbofans?

just don't expect the dealership to give you a new motor if you beat the hell out of it....
I don't 8)
 

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Okay!

I have stayed pretty much out of this one but here are some things to consider.

Some Piston rings are made of chromoly steel, Some are made from cast iron, and so on and so on, Some cylinders are made of iron and some are soft steel and so on and so on,

These things make the difference between hard breakin and soft breakin as far as ring seating is concerned, As far as bearings and film oil protection goes, You should never have fisical contact between a bearing and a rod or main journal surface so there would be no breakin required, You do more damage to your bearings during cold startup and oil changes than you would do running your engine hard during breakin!

Now!
There is a possibility to have casting slag floating around in a new engine but it is going to screw you at any rpm.

My opinion on breakin is to very the rpm contantly as well as engine temp so as to season and seat all surfaces, I agree with Lycoming that you don't want to run a new engine at a low power setting for a long period of time as this will cause glazing and I have had to go back into an engine to deglaze after an improper breakin.

I'm sure you all have seen several different procedures from well known performance as well as stock production company's, anybody ever looked at breakin procedures for Comp Cams?

I did this shite for a livin fer many years. 8)
 

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Louks03 said:
I still trust the lil guys that made my machine.



I work on aircraft and we don't have a break in period. Although it could be the fact that you could fly a Cessna into the intake of one my engines. LOL

Not sure if it has to power to weight ratio of my 10R either.

769,000lbs dry (add another 352,000lbs for a full tank of fuel and maybe 10,000 for oil and Hydraulics) 50,000lbs of thrust X 4 engines.





thats a huge b*%ch
 

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first of all, the piston rings do not expand with the pressure in the cylinder. They expand with the heat generated. Secondly there should be always a film of oil in the cylinder wall to prevent scratching of cylinders. thats what oil serves. if the burden is burned oil use full synthetic oil. ıf the guys who make the engine believe that easy break in will damage the engine they would not recommend it. ıf you do hard break in your bike may go well in the beginning however it will not last longer.

did I follow up the break in instructions? unfortunately not because ı can not. :)
 

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Louks03 said:
I still trust the lil guys that made my machine.



I work on aircraft and we don't have a break in period. Although it could be the fact that you could fly a Cessna into the intake of one my engines. LOL

Not sure if it has to power to weight ratio of my 10R either.

769,000lbs dry (add another 352,000lbs for a full tank of fuel and maybe 10,000 for oil and Hydraulics) 50,000lbs of thrust X 4 engines. Its a little tall fer my taste though. 65' at the tail.





I used to sit on my grandparents porch in SE Altus and watch the big C130's do touch and go's 20 years ago, do they fly heavies that large in there now?
 

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I work on aircraft and we don't have a break in period. Although it could be the fact that you could fly a Cessna into the intake of one my engines. LOL
Louks, you are actually incorrect about the jet engines and break-in. The engines are ran on test stands and do have a break-in procedure to seat the blade tracks in the compressors and the blade tracks in the turbines. So when the engine actually makes it to the aircraft it is ready to go.

In case you question me:

9 yrs jet engine experience in the USAF
2 yrs flight engineer in the USAF (I actually went to school at Altus)
9 yrs with Allison Engine Company/Rolls Royce Engine Company
 

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listen i break all my bikes in fairly hard and they always make more power than others on the dyno. be smart about it, run it through the gears but not to redline, then slowly keep increasing the r's. 1 mile on my bike it was quickly revving through the gears at 8 grand and gradually a little higher every 50 miles or so. i was full tilt at 300 miles, and this thing runs like a dream!!!!!
 

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Break in blah blah is imposed by the manufacturer to keep squids from splattering themselves on a new machine they are unfamiliar with. I have purchased 5 brand spanking new bikes over the years, and every single one has been broken in by my "break in" procedure... Run it like you stole it. I have not had a single failure of any kind.

Ask any real world racing mechanic. Yes, motorcycle racing mechanic... ask em' how they break in their motors? And save the "Yeah, but they only use that motor for one season"... I know several people that do race and have bikes that have the same damn engine they have had for 4+ years... No failures, no oil blow by and no rebuilds. Same damn engine with thousands of track miles... never "broken-in" and still going strong.

I know there have been failures of new motors, especially in the motorcycle world, but I (my opinion) believe that there will always be failures when certain tolerances are not met in the manufacturing process... (ie: LEMONS) Cars have the same issues... You can't tell me you or someone you know hasn't purchased a "Lemon" before. It happens in all industries.
 

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DB said:
I work on aircraft and we don't have a break in period. Although it could be the fact that you could fly a Cessna into the intake of one my engines. LOL
Louks, you are actually incorrect about the jet engines and break-in. The engines are ran on test stands and do have a break-in procedure to seat the blade tracks in the compressors and the blade tracks in the turbines. So when the engine actually makes it to the aircraft it is ready to go.

In case you question me:

9 yrs jet engine experience in the USAF
2 yrs flight engineer in the USAF (I actually went to school at Altus)
9 yrs with Allison Engine Company/Rolls Royce Engine Company
Yeah I was just tryin to be funny without getting to technical. Thanks allot fer ruining it. /cry

Yeah they have the C-5, C-17, and KC-135's here now. Student pilots are fun to watch but hard on ACFT. LOL
 

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Bottom line to this whole thing is very easy. If you want the most HP from your bike you will break it in hard. If you want to pussy the bike and break it in easy you will loss HP forever.

Hard break ins DO NOT damage an engine in anyway. So do what you want both ways will work but you WILL loss HP by breaking a bike in easy.
 
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